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{{:Cyber Nations Wiki:Village Pump/Archivebox}}
 
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Welcome to the '''Village Pump'''. This used by the Cyber Nations Wiki community mainly to discuss topics regarding technical issues, policies, and operations of the CN Wiki. If you add a topic and want to notify other users-feel free to use [[Template:Pumpnotice]] as a means to inform them via their user talk page. For a list of relatively active users see [[CN:USERS]].
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[[Category:Cyber Nations Wiki administration]]
   
 
__TOC__
 
__TOC__
   
== Achievements ==
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==Added tidbit to [[CN:STYLE]]==
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I added the [[CN:LEAD]] section to the [[CN:STYLE]] policy. I pretty much just copied Wikipedia and their [[wikipedia:WP:LEAD|WP:LEAD]] but it makes sense and is easy enough to follow. Any thoughts, comments, concerns, complaints? —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#ffa500">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 03:12, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
I couldn't find any discussion on [[w:c:help:Help:Achievements|Achievements]] in the Village Pump archives so I thought I would bring it up. I know it says that the achievements aren't retroactive (sadly) but it may have some potentially good (or bad) bonuses along with it. Here's a link to [[w:c:swtor:User:Alexsau1991|a user's page]] on the SWTOR wiki as an example.
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:This makes sense and looks good to me. It is a good idea to incorporate this section. No complaints from me! [[User:J Andres|J Andres]] ([[User talk:J Andres|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/J Andres|contribs]]) 04:00, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
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:I to am fine with this. -- [[User:Imperial Empire|Imperial Empire]] ([[User talk:Imperial Empire|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Imperial Empire|contribs]]) 06:21, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
Potential Pro's
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:I'd have no gripes which this at all. As you are one of the most enthusiastic wiki editors here, I will trust your judgment and will offer my support for your idea. [[User:Franz Ferdinand|Franz Ferdinand, Conquerer of Micros]] ([[User talk:Franz Ferdinand|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Franz Ferdinand|contribs]]) 07:42, June 7, 2014‎
*May draw contributors to log in more instead of anonymously editting.
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:Thanks, looks like I have a few things to update.--[[User:ScourgeNPO|ScourgeNPO]] ([[User talk:ScourgeNPO|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/ScourgeNPO|contribs]]) 20:01, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
*The number of ''active contributors'' may increase. Right now I'd wager there's a handful.
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:Looks good to me. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">21:52, Saturday, 7 June 2014 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
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:Just adding to the chorus here, but good to have. I'll look into changing some of my intros when I have the time [[User:CloudSpirit|CloudSpirit]] ([[User talk:CloudSpirit|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/CloudSpirit|contribs]]) 09:39, June 8, 2014 (UTC)
Potential Con's
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:Looks good. <small><span style="border:2px solid green;"><span style="background:green;">[[User:Gopherbashi|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">Gopherbashi</span>]] </span>&nbsp;<span style="color:green">Sanction Race Updater</span> </span></small>&nbsp; 16:09, June 8, 2014 (UTC)
*It most likely will mess up user pages. (However, I'm not sure what it will be like if you're using the [[CN:CSS|CSS]] skin)
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:Be interesting to see if the Leads for all the alliance articles can be used for recruitment and other things. Be interesting to see where this leads. --[[User:Zeta Defender|Zeta Defender]] ([[User talk:Zeta Defender|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Zeta Defender|contribs]]) 08:56, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
*The time that it take to implement it. (Once again, not sure how long/little it would take)
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::Well, that all depends on how it's written I suppose, keeping in mind articles aren't supposed to be biased or have nonfactual statements and other things which are covered under [[CN:STYLE#Other_Miscellaneous_Guidelines|Other miscellaneous guidelines]] of [[CN:STYLE]]. For instance, many members of [[DBDC]] hold [http://www.cybernations.net/stats_awards.asp in-game records/awards] so it's acceptable to state that they have many members who have in-game records/awards, because it's true. What the other misc guidelines is meant to curtail is obvious bias and nonfactual statements and such, like saying "[[GPA]] is the premier alliance in Cyber Nations" there's no backing there, nothing to support that. However, saying "GPA is the second highest alliance by [[nation strength]]" is acceptable, because you look at the Alliances page and GPA is right there at #2. Then there's other "non-controversial" type statements, like on the [[Sengoku]] page in the lead we have "''Members of Sengoku consider themselves to be in large part a successor to the defunct [[Ordinary Men Fighting Giants]] and [[Basketball Ninjas]] alliance.''" Hope this helps Zeta. —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#ffa500">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 11:21, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 
If anyone else wants to list any others, go right ahead. I just thought I would mention the idea and see what other folks thought. <span style="border:1px solid #FF0000; border-radius:1.5em 0em 1.5em 0em;"><span style="background:#FF0000; border-top-left-radius:1.5em;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:Serif; color:#FFFFFF;">&nbsp;Rogal Dorn&nbsp;</span>]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User_talk:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:sans serif; color:#FF0000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:sans serif; color:#FF0000">&nbsp;03:57, Monday, 9 January 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|EST|color=#FF0000}})</span>
 
 
:I SUPPORT THIS! I LIKE SHINY THINGS [[User:Sir Keshav IV|Sir Keshav IV]] ([[User talk:Sir Keshav IV|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Sir Keshav IV|contribs]]) 09:07, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:'''Against'''. Reasoning follows. 1) Wikia. 2) Incentive to make worthless edits and the like. 3) Can reward vandals. Normally I'd like the shinies but I really don't think they're appropriate for a wiki. Oh, as for display on user pages - they'd go in the sidebar along with any other modules that are present. I'd likely hide it with the custom CSS, because although some things such as that can be worth looking at, they mess up layout and it's simple enough to log out to see them (although it has never remembered my username/password so I always have to retype them >_>). As for installing it, I believe it is as easy as clicking a button to turn it on, unless we want to customize them. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">04:15, Monday, 9 January 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
::I think we/someone would have to take the time to create a bunch of Achievements, right? Or are they all pre-made? Like ''you made 10 edits, here's a cookie!, you wrote on a talk page, here's a cookie!'' In that case it would be easy to implement, however I agree it could lead to users making more worthless edits on the wiki(they have to log in though :P). As far as rewarding vandals goes it said in the FAQ that blocking a user removes all of their achievements, or did you mean something else Bobo as far as rewarding vandals goes?
 
 
::Maybe instead of Wikia achievements we could create some sort of CN wiki award for reporting vandalism, helping others, etc etc (although someone would then have to monitor or at least be aware of their existence and give them out from time to time for it to work) Hrmm... <span style="border:1px solid #FF0000; border-radius:1.5em 0em 1.5em 0em;"><span style="background:#FF0000; border-top-left-radius:1.5em;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:Serif; color:#FFFFFF;">&nbsp;Rogal Dorn&nbsp;</span>]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User_talk:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:sans serif; color:#FF0000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:sans serif; color:#FF0000">&nbsp;04:27, Monday, 9 January 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|EST|color=#FF0000}})</span>
 
 
:::Ah, I hadn't read the FAQ. Most vandals only appear once and are not seen again, so after their one-day block expires, they'll still have the achievement. I suppose that isn't really a major issue though. Yeah there's a default set of achievements with names and images (I think you can see a list on any wiki that has them enabled), and we can customize them if we want. And, apparently, add new ones for a specific category. And it also says you can disable their display and block notifications for yourself, so that's good. I suppose they aren't too evil; I wouldn't be opposed to enabling them if there is significant support here. Speaking of being aware of existence, Justin started a [[CN:BARN|Barnstars]] project, so you might want to take a look at that. I hope your monitor is okay :P &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">04:37, Monday, 9 January 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
 
::::Haha, I appreciate your concern for my monitor xD I managed to wipe the milk off in time haha. Hrmm, that's got me thinking. If the vandal doesn't log in do they still get that achievement I wonder. Yeah, I wasn't sure whether or not they would be a good thing for the CN wiki until a conversation was hatched and ideas floated around. I think it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, especially since you can disable their display and block notifications and it wouldn't take long to actually implement. I'm unsure however in the aspect that us active contributors who have already put so much time and effort into the wiki aren't retroactively rewarded. But, if it does spark more/new active contributors I think it would be beneficial to our tiny community. I '''support''' the achievements in the hope that it increases the number of new/active contributors in the long haul. I also think that if this does garner enough support that it actually goes into effect that an announcement be made on the CN forums, maybe the two combined (achievements + announcement of achievements) would help indeed. thoughts? :3 <span style="border:1px solid #FF0000; border-radius:1.5em 0em 1.5em 0em;"><span style="background:#FF0000; border-top-left-radius:1.5em;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:Serif; color:#FFFFFF;">&nbsp;Rogal Dorn&nbsp;</span>]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User_talk:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:sans serif; color:#FF0000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:sans serif; color:#FF0000">&nbsp;04:58, Monday, 9 January 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|EST|color=#FF0000}})</span>
 
 
:I think they're really just more trouble than they're worth. I doubt achievements are going to do much for the state of the wiki, and anything extra to clutter the layout will be problematic, especially for the majority of people who don't know how to change that. <span style="white-space:nowrap; color:#7F007F; font-size:smaller;">&nbsp;~&nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap; border: 1px solid #7F007F; -webkit-border-radius: 10px; -moz-border-radius: 10px; border-radius: 10px;">[[User:Azu-nyan|'''<span style="background-color:white; color:#7F007F; -webkit-border-top-left-radius: 10px; -webkit-border-bottom-left-radius: 10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft: 10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 10px; border-top-left-radius: 10px; border-bottom-left-radius: 10px;">&nbsp;&nbsp;Locke&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][[User talk:Azu-nyan|<span style="background-color:#7F007F; color:white; -webkit-border-top-left-radius: 10px; -webkit-border-bottom-left-radius: 10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft: 10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 10px; border-top-left-radius: 10px; border-bottom-left-radius: 10px;">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Azu-nyan|<span style="background-color:#7F007F; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Alestor|<span style="background-color:#7F007F; color:white; -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; -moz-border-radius-topright: 5px; -moz-border-radius-bottomright: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px;">&nbsp;&nbsp;nation&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span>'''&nbsp;05:13, Monday, 9 January 2012 (ET)'''</span>
 
 
I'm dropping this comment in here, myself and MVP had a [[User_talk:Michael_von_Preußen#Barnstars|discussion]] about [[User_talk:Imperial_Empire#RE:_Barnstars|barnstars]] nearly two years ago though in the end we didn't do anything with it. Looks like a bit over a year later JustinVuong [[Cyber Nations Wiki:Barnstars|set a page up]] for it though I didn't realise that at the time and it looks like hardly anything has happened with it. Whether achievements are worth it or not I don't know. -- [[User:Imperial Empire|Imperial Empire]] ([[User talk:Imperial Empire|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Imperial Empire|contribs]]) 11:59, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Really no preference here. If you guys add it, I'll keep on editing, and will continue to do so even if it is removed. It seems kinda pointless, but I wouldn't mind it.
 
--[[User:Mompson|Mompson]] ([[User talk:Mompson|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Mompson|contribs]]) 13:27, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I would be '''against''' them. in short, because they don't contribute anything. That, and I have a natural aversion to achievements appearing in every damned aspect of online activity.
 
 
[[User:RenegadeOfficer|RenegadeOfficer]] ([[User talk:RenegadeOfficer|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/RenegadeOfficer|contribs]]) 13:53, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Overall I would be in '''Support''' of it, as long as it was implemented in the right way. The way I see it happening is 1. People like it and start editing more and we get a better wiki 2. People try to abuse it and we give them a swift kick in the ass 3. No one cares and the current wiki editors get Achievement whorish (I know I would) and edit the wiki even more. Yes it's sad that we are achievement whores, but it's true :P So overall I would '''support''' it. [[User:Nascar8FanGA|Nascar8FanGA]] ([[User talk:Nascar8FanGA|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Nascar8FanGA|contribs]])
 
 
Wow, so much can be done when you're gone for a day. :P Any who, as Bobogoobo and Imperial Empire pointed out, I have, in the past, attempted to start the Barnstars project. However, as you can see, it received little team effort and essentially died. While I do like the idea of achievements, I sincerely do not believe it will have any significant benefit for our wiki. Our wiki is generally a community to record the aspects of CN, the alliances, and roleplay. Like Ansontx points out below, an achievement could allow the user to do some undesirable methods to gain so. As he points out, if say there were a 1,000 edit medal, a contributor could easily manipulate this by repeatedly editing only minor stuff and see as the edits stack. Quality is better than quantity and I fear that some contributors will only come here as a means to feel "superior" on the wiki in terms of edit count. Basically, it could make our wiki into a community of n00bs controlling a edit scoring game. :P However, if this can be controlled, I'm all for it. &#32;<span style="background:black; padding:5px 2px; font-size:smaller;"><span style="background:brown; color:white; padding:3px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:JustinVuong|{{color|blue|'''JustinVuong'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:JustinVuong|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[United States of JBR|{{color|yellow|Nation}}]]</span></span>&#32; 00:25, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
'''Against''' - Normally I'm all for that shiny award, pin, button, or ribbon. However, in this particular application I'm profusely against it. Reiterating above sentiments, I don't see any particular need for it. Additionally, I honestly think it would cause a lot more harm than good. For example, if I was looking for the 1000 edits award (pretending that was an option for just a moment), what would stop me from just editing my alliance's page, intentionally omitting certain information, going back, making a spelling error, fixing it but making another error, etc. Before you know it, that one change has snowballed into 15 changes at least. One or two fixes make sense. As Bobogoobo knows, I've made my share of mistakes on various wikia pages (Tips hat in gratitude for fixing them). EDIT: Prime example, I'm editing this post because I forgot to sign it. &nbsp;<span style="background:#101847; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:#101847; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Ansontx|{{color|white|'''ANSON'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Ansontx|{{color|white|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Texas|{{color|red|President of Texas}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:#101847; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">13:29, Monday, 9 January 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32; 18:29, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
: To be fair people will notice. I have made a few "too" many edits before when I didn't use preview as much or would forget something, and Locke or another admin beat me with a stick on IRC telling me to stop notifying them of all my edits :P For every time people edit a page I'm following I get an email, so if people start pointlessly editing a topic 100 times, people will notice and complain. [[User:Nascar8FanGA|Nascar8FanGA]] ([[User talk:Nascar8FanGA|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Nascar8FanGA|contribs]])
 
 
'''Comment:''' I'm really neutral to the idea of achievements in general, but I do want to know why Wikia thinks the entire Internet needs to be a social network. It's already to the point where articles are somewhat incidental to what the entirety of Wikia is about, between blogs, Facebook and Twitter connections, the comment system more and more wikis have, &c. Achievements would really only make that aspect worse in my opinion. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-size:smaller;">&nbsp;<span style="font-size:xx-small; border-color:#FFD700; border-width:2px;background-color:#009530; border-style:groove; white-space:pre;"> </span> [[User:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#000; font-family:'Times New Roman';">Michael von Preußen</span>]] | [[User talk:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#000; font-family:'Times New Roman';">talk</span>]]</span>
 
 
'''Support:''' I liked the idea on other Wikias, while I can see it being abused, I made meaningful contributions to those places and maybe the CN Wiki will see some more meaningful contributions from it. --[[User:LittleRena|LittleRena]] ([[User talk:LittleRena|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/LittleRena|contribs]]) 14:47, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
'''Against''' - I think Locke really hit this issue on the head, and I quote, "I think they're really just more trouble than they're worth. I doubt achievements are going to do much for the state of the wiki, and anything extra to clutter the layout will be problematic, especially for the majority of people who don't know how to change that."
 
 
Not only that, but I think a far better way of getting solid contributors is for us to foster them in our own alliances. We have to show our fellow members how useful and fun the wiki can be, how they can chronicle their alliance's achievements, their achievements and the history and mechanics of CN as they perceive them. It would probably prove more useful for us to message our Ministers of Internal Affairs, Communications, or Media (depending on which it would pertain to in your alliance), and encourage them to create a small team to edit the wiki. I know NPO has one, and I know MHA used to have one. I think the acclaim one is afforded by the members of their alliance for making quality wiki pages and for knowing their way around the wiki is a far better encouragement than achievements could hope to be.
 
 
Additionally, things as bright, colorful and showcased as achievements will make the wiki (and especially user pages) harder to access for those with slower internet connections. This idea might actually ''hurt'' the number of people we have on the wiki. In the best-case scenario, if achievements do work, then you would have a number of contributors solely editing for achievements. Their edits would probably be of poor quality, and might even be more broken up than normal (just to try to earn the achievement), making the history of pages harder to navigate. It would be hardly worth the work.
 
 
--<span style="white-space:nowrap;"><small><span style="border:2px solid #00BFFF;"><span style="background:#00BFFF;">[[User:Dynasty1|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">&nbsp;Dynasty&nbsp;</span>]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dynasty1|<span style="font-family:corbel; color:#00BFFF">Talk</span>]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Grand Besaid|<span style="font-family:corbel; color:#00BFFF">Grand Besaid</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> <span style="font-family:calibri; color:#00BFFF"> 13:23, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 (EST)</span></small></span>
 
 
'''Support''' - Great idea, it would draw in more active contributors, but we may have the problem of people just doing minor edits or poor quality edits in order to get the achievements. Though, I know it would encourage me to do more edits. I am for the idea, but must point out that this may have more kinks in it than we first imagine. -- [[User:Zabuza825|Zabuza825]] ([[User talk:Zabuza825|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Zabuza825|contribs]]) 00:50, January 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
'''Against''' - I'm going to repeat what someone else said about what Locke said, because those are my feelings exactly: ''I think Locke really hit this issue on the head, and I quote, "I think they're really just more trouble than they're worth. I doubt achievements are going to do much for the state of the wiki, and anything extra to clutter the layout will be problematic, especially for the majority of people who don't know how to change that."''
 
 
I'm a big fan of the KISS theory: "Keeping It Simple, Stupid" - stuff like this isn't going to draw peopeple to use the Wiki.[[User:Botha|Botha]] ([[User talk:Botha|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Botha|contribs]]) 01:00, January 11, 2012 (UTC)Botha
 
 
'''Against'''. I've refrained from adding this feature to another wiki I administer for the same reasons stated above. I'm afraid that adding in achievements will bring in users who are just editing for the sake of hording shiny medals, and such edits would probably be of poor quality. <span style="white-space:nowrap;"><small><span style="border:2px solid #B8860B;"><span style="background:#B8860B;">&nbsp;[[User:Pikachurin|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">Pikachurin</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User_talk:Pikachurin|<span style="font-family:corbel; color:#B8860B">Talk</span>]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Pikachurin|<span style="font-family:corbel; color:#B8860B;">Contribs</span>]]&nbsp;</span></small><small><span style="font-family:corbel; color:#B8860B">&nbsp;&nbsp;21:15, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 (ET)</span></small></span>
 
 
== Wikia finally does something good ==
 
 
According to [[w:User blog:Craiglpalmer/SOPA and PIPA Situation Summary|this notification]], the first thing users will see on January 18th will be a large ad campaigning against SOPA and PIPA. The ad overrides local skin settings, but refreshing will temporarily get rid of the ad. I'm not sure how this would impact the CN Wiki, but I guess it's good that Wikia's doing something good for a change. :P <span style="white-space:nowrap;"><small><span style="border:2px solid #B8860B;"><span style="background:#B8860B;">&nbsp;[[User:Pikachurin|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">Pikachurin</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User_talk:Pikachurin|<span style="font-family:corbel; color:#B8860B">Talk</span>]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Pikachurin|<span style="font-family:corbel; color:#B8860B;">Contribs</span>]]&nbsp;</span></small><small><span style="font-family:corbel; color:#B8860B">&nbsp;&nbsp;18:04, Tuesday, 17 January 2012 (ET)</span></small></span>
 
 
:Would it be okay if we followed this guy's [[w:User blog comment:Craiglpalmer/SOPA and PIPA Situation Summary/@comment-Wikiasmikia-20120118034230|idea]]? &#32;<span style="background:black; padding:5px 2px; font-size:smaller;"><span style="background:brown; color:white; padding:3px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:JustinVuong|{{color|blue|'''JustinVuong'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:JustinVuong|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[United States of JBR|{{color|yellow|Nation}}]]</span></span>&#32; 03:56, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:*applause* Well done, Wikia. Well done. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-size:smaller;">&nbsp;<span style="font-size:xx-small; border-color:#FFD700; border-width:2px;background-color:#009530; border-style:groove; white-space:pre;"> </span> [[User:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#000; font-family:'Times New Roman';">Michael von Preußen</span>]] | [[User talk:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#000; font-family:'Times New Roman';">talk</span>]]</span>
 
 
== Message Wall ==
 
 
I figure I should start a discussion for newest feature Wikia has crapped out. Screenshot with descriptions can be found [http://www.wikia.com/Message_Wall here] and the blog post is [[w:c:community:User blog:Dopp/Message Wall Now Available in Labs|here]]. Personally I think it's stupid and the most obvious Facebook copy they've released so far. Unfortunately I haven't been able to be active here recently, but when I return to my previous level of activity I'd rather be able to use it as a wiki rather than a second Facebook. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">18:00, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
 
:I completely agree Bobo, this is crap imo. If I wanted a message wall I would get a facebook account.<span style="white-space:nowrap;"><span style="border:1px solid #FF0000; border-radius:1.5em 0em 1.5em 0em;"><span style="background:#FF0000; border-top-left-radius:1.5em;">&#32;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';font-style:italic;color:#FFFFFF;">&nbsp;RogalDorn</span>]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';color:#FF0000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style="font-size:smaller; font-family:'Times New Roman';color:#FF0000">&nbsp;02:53, Thursday, 2 February 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|EST|color=#FF0000}})</span></span>
 
 
::Much as I'd love to jump head-first into Wikiahatefest 2012, there is actually something I like about the new Message Wall, as opposed to the current talk pages, and that is the automatic archiving feature: assuming it actually works. A lot of Wikians have a habit of either deleting old talk page messages, which is bad for the community, or just never archiving, leading to insanely long talk pages. Heck, even my own [[User talk:Michael von Preußen|talk page]], despite being previously routinely archived, has grown unruly since I've stopped regularly editing. Automatic archiving sounds like a great idea to me.
 
 
::Now, here's where that caveat comes in: without using the message wall, it's hard to tell if it will archive it nicely, neatly, and efficiently, or if it'll just end up putting all old posts on another page (making the archive as unruly as an unarchived talk page). Though I had only a few messages on my [[w:c:community:Message Wall:Michael von Preußen/User talk archive|Wikia Community Hub Talk Page]] before the Message Wall was introduced, it just automatically shoved them off and onto their own page, without any seeming care for whether they might even still be active discussions or not.
 
 
::Furthermore, there's no clear way to link to a discussion. Discussion links no longer follow a clear [[User talk:User#Discussion]] format; rather, if I were to link to, for example, one thread on [[w:c:community:User:Dopp|Dopp]]'s Message Wall, I'd provide a link to [[w:c:community:Thread:352726|Thread:352726]], which gives absolutely no context (from the link) as to where the thread is actually located, whose Message Wall it is on, or what messages may have come before or after it (because it's displayed on its own page entirely). In a related note, it also doesn't look to me as though there's a table of contents, so good luck finding older threads.
 
 
::Other than that, everything you can do on it is pretty much the same as talk pages. In other words, it's exactly what Wikia has done repeatedly in the past: they've introduced a new feature to replace an old one, there's one or two good things about the new feature, and everything else is broken (oh, and looks like a social network, too!). So yeah, not pleased. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-size:smaller;">&nbsp;<span style="font-size:xx-small; border-color:#FFD700; border-width:2px;background-color:#009530; border-style:groove; white-space:pre;"> </span> [[User:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#000; font-family:'Times New Roman';">Michael von Preußen</span>]] | [[User talk:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#000; font-family:'Times New Roman';">talk</span>]]</span>
 
 
== Expanded Wiki Navigation ==
 
 
I've turned this feature on for the time being to test what it exactly does. It mentions fixes to preview and support for more links in the header, which would be nice. I'm also considering enabling Chat as the only reason it was ever removed was because of Wikia doing so in Oasis. However, it was never highly used and probably will be hidden by CSS, so the utility of it is questionable. <span style="white-space:nowrap; color:#7F007F; font-size:smaller;">&nbsp;~&nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap; border: 1px solid #7F007F; -webkit-border-radius: 10px; -moz-border-radius: 10px; border-radius: 10px;">[[User:Azu-nyan|'''<span style="background-color:white; color:#7F007F; -webkit-border-top-left-radius: 10px; -webkit-border-bottom-left-radius: 10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft: 10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 10px; border-top-left-radius: 10px; border-bottom-left-radius: 10px;">&nbsp;&nbsp;Locke&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][[User talk:Azu-nyan|<span style="background-color:#7F007F; color:white; -webkit-border-top-left-radius: 10px; -webkit-border-bottom-left-radius: 10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft: 10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 10px; border-top-left-radius: 10px; border-bottom-left-radius: 10px;">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Azu-nyan|<span style="background-color:#7F007F; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Alestor|<span style="background-color:#7F007F; color:white; -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; -moz-border-radius-topright: 5px; -moz-border-radius-bottomright: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px;">&nbsp;&nbsp;nation&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span>'''&nbsp;15:08, Thursday, 2 February 2012 (ET)'''</span>
 
:Not a fan. It takes up more space with about the same content (or less, as I see you removed some because of the Contribute button). I don't see a "new preview tool." It also brought back some things that I had removed with CSS, like the Talk button (I changed it to a heading/link) and having the number of pages at the top of every page for some reason. And yeah, Chat wasn't used much and it goes in the sidebar, so if you wanted to see it the width of the entire article would be reduced for that little thing. So yeah, I'd rather keep things roughly the way they have been, which in most cases worked better than all the stuff Wikia is adding. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">19:16, Thursday, 2 February 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
 
::I'd also add that we don't need a chat on the wiki since we have a channel on the IRC already to cover the matter. &#32;<span style="background:black; padding:5px 2px; font-size:smaller;"><span style="background:brown; color:white; padding:3px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:JustinVuong|{{color|blue|'''JustinVuong'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:JustinVuong|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[United States of JBR|{{color|yellow|Nation}}]]</span></span>&#32; 00:47, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:I miss the old look D:, also I think that the wiki chat would help users who do not use IRC... but I'm still apprehensive at best. Overall, I'm not a fan of either, sorry Locke.<span style="white-space:nowrap;"><span style="border:1px solid #FF0000; border-radius:1.5em 0em 1.5em 0em;"><span style="background:#FF0000; border-top-left-radius:1.5em;">&#32;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';font-style:italic;color:#FFFFFF;">&nbsp;RogalDorn</span>]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';color:#FF0000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style="font-size:smaller; font-family:'Times New Roman';color:#FF0000">&nbsp;05:34, Friday, 3 February 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|EST|color=#FF0000}})</span></span>
 
 
:Can we switch back to the old navigation now... :3 I dislike this extended navigation greatly D:<span style="white-space:nowrap;"><span style="border:1px solid #FF0000; border-radius:1.5em 0em 1.5em 0em;"><span style="background:#FF0000; border-top-left-radius:1.5em;">&#32;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';font-style:italic;color:#FFFFFF;">&nbsp;RogalDorn</span>]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';color:#FF0000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style="font-size:smaller; font-family:'Times New Roman';color:#FF0000">&nbsp;18:23, Saturday, 18 February 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|EST|color=#FF0000}})</span></span>
 
 
:Figure I'd throw my 2 Pfennige in; I've always liked the expanded navigation when I've seen it on other wikis. I always thought it was part of Semantic MediaWiki, though. It's nice to see I was wrong. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-size:smaller;">&nbsp;<span style="font-size:xx-small; border-color:#FFD700; border-width:2px;background-color:#009530; border-style:groove; white-space:pre;"> </span> [[User:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#000; font-family:'Times New Roman';">Michael von Preußen</span>]] | [[User talk:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#000; font-family:'Times New Roman';">talk</span>]]</span>
 
 
Okay so since we're not really using any features of the new navigation to make it work better than the old method and it also breaks some improvements I made with CSS on the old nav, how would you all feel about changing it back to the old way? &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">21:23, Thursday, 19 April 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
 
:I would like it if it were reverted back to the way it was :3&nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid #FF0000; border-radius:1.5em 0em 1.5em 0em;"><span style="background:#FF0000; border-top-left-radius:1.5em;">&#32;&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:'Lucida Console';color:#FFFFFF;">RogalDorn</span>]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:RogalDorn|<span style="font-size:smaller;font-family:'Lucida Console';color:#FF0000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style="white-space:nowrap;"><span style="font-size:smaller;font-family:'Lucida Console';color:#FF0000">&nbsp;22:08, Thursday, 19 April 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|EST|color=#FF0000}})</span></span>
 
 
I reverted this btw. :3 &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">20:43, Thursday, 14 June 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
 
:\o/ {{User:RogalDorn/sig|03:20,6/15/2012}}
 
 
==Recent spam==
 
We seem to have a problem with some spambots visiting recently; I'm not sure whether they're targeting all of Wikia or what. But be on the lookout, they're pretty conspicuous anyway. If you get there before an admin does, please report the IP on [[CN:RV]] and undo the edit it made, and an admin will permaban it as soon as possible (though it looks like each one is only being used once anyway). Yours in vandal-fighting, &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">21:23, Thursday, 19 April 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
:Might want to let [[Help:SpamTaskForce|VSTF]] know about it. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-size:smaller;">&nbsp;<span style="font-size:xx-small; border-color:#FFD700; border-width:2px;background-color:#009530; border-style:groove; white-space:pre;"> </span> [[User:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#000; font-family:'Times New Roman';">Michael von Preußen</span>]] | [[User talk:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#000; font-family:'Times New Roman';">talk</span>]]</span>
 
::[[w:c:vstf:Report:Spam#Spam on Cyber Nations Wiki|Done]], thanks. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">21:39, Thursday, 19 April 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
 
== Update to MediaWiki 1.19 ==
 
 
Please report anything that was broken by the update to the new MediaWiki version here. Current known issue: flags in the alliance infobox aren't centered. I tried to fix this but apparently it didn't work, so I'll try again soon. Anything else related to the update can go here as well. One new special page I noticed is [[Special:ComparePages]], which looks like it could be useful. Not sure what else was changed. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">18:10, Wednesday, 18 July 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
 
==Books LLC==
 
 
A little while back I was searching "Sunshine Treaty Organization Pact" on Google, and found these:
 
 
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/cyber-nations-stop-source-wikia/1110940943
 
 
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/isbn/1234698935
 
 
http://books.google.com/books/about/Cyber_Nations_Organizations.html?id=vouXtgAACAAJ
 
 
http://www.infibeam.com/Books/cyber-nations-stop-bekolan-deltoran-republic-government-sunshine-books-llc-wiki-series/9781234699659.html
 
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyber-Nations-Government-Organization-Bekolanish/dp/images/1234699656
 
 
I was wondering why our wiki articles were being printed out as books and sold. Also, it wasn't just our articles, it was a lot of articles on the CN Wiki. I looked up to see if Wikia had anything to do with it and found out that it's not just happening to the CN Wiki, it's happening to various other Wiki's as well.
 
 
http://utaforum.com/topic/9223930/1/
 
 
It appears company called Books, LLC is taking content from various Wiki's and selling them for a commercial profit. They appear to be within the bounds of copyright law as they are following the CC-BB-SA 3.0 license. Wikia has nothing to do with this, and I quote a Wikia employee:
 
 
{{quote|Hi Katie,
 
We've heard about a few of these "books" recently. Wikia is not involved in any way in their publication. We are listed as the source, but the publisher is a firm called "Books, LLC" (see more info about them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_LLC ).
 
Unfortunately, they appear to be within the terms of the CC-BY-SA 3.0 license that's used on Wikia wikis, which allows distribution and includes sale of the works. Here's the full license text: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode .
 
This license is used for any text added to the wiki, except in special circumstances. Images (and some other content) may be "all rights reserved" content is used on the wiki under fair use rules. In those cases, it may be that the publisher is breaking copyright rules – but I don't know exactly how that might apply to your wiki and content.
 
If you hold the copyright for content used on the wiki which would not be fair use in this situation, you may want to contact the publisher or Barnes and Noble about this.
 
I hope this explains more of what's going on.
 
Regards,
 
– sannse
 
Sannse Carter Cushway
 
Wikia Community Support|Sannse Carter Cushway, Wikia Community Support|http://utaforum.com/single/?p=8270713&t=9223930}}
 
 
It's not just happening to members of the [[Sunshine Treaty Organization Pact]]. They have also taken wiki pages made by others as well as alliance pages and made books out of them, I'll list and link to the material that may infringe copyright here.
 
 
[[User:Michael von Preußen]]:
 
 
http://www.amazon.com/Cyber-Nations-Gro%C3%9Fgermania-Geography-Government/dp/1234699567
 
 
[[User:Pikachurin]]:
 
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=o0XUygAACAAJ&dq=Cyber+Nations+Disparu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0vnNT6bpGOT42gWhgLGpDA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAA
 
 
[[New Pacific Order]]:
 
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=BW00AwEACAAJ&dq=Cyber+Nations+New+Pacific+Order&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fvrNT8KsN8jK2AWYjPjZDA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAA
 
 
[[New Polar Order]]:
 
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=vpIJywAACAAJ&dq=Cyber+Nations+New+Polar+Order&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rPrNT8rqGYb22gXh4-WxDA&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA
 
   
[[Green Protection Agency]]:
+
== Alliances with multiple incarnations and the default alliance name ==
   
http://books.google.com/books?id=t532ygAACAAJ&dq=Cyber+Nations+New+Sith+Order&hl=en&sa=X&ei=z_rNT7T9AqrW2AW0w8TADA&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA
+
So, [[User:Gopherbashi|Gopherbashi]] initially brought up a good issue regarding [[Viridian Entente]] and [[Viridian Entente (2nd)]] on their respective talk pages; "''Perhaps it's time that this article was just named "Viridian Entente", with a note at the top referring people to "Viridian Entente (1st)" if that's what they're looking for."'' I certainly agree with him that alliance names and acronyms should link to the most recent incarnation of the alliance since 99% of the time that's what people are looking for anyway.Especially since VE has been around in it's second incarnation since 2007... This begs the question of "Well, what are we going to do for a disambiguation page (sometimes just called a "dab" page) then? Well, glad you asked. [[Viridian Entente (disambiguation)]] isn't taken. And on the top of each alliance incarnation page we can have a little note (sometimes called a "hatnote") that says "For other incarnations of <alliance name>, see [[alliance (disambiguation)]]". It's relatively easy to see what needs to get done by sifting through [[:Category:Alliances with multiple incarnations]]. Anyone have any better suggestions, ideas, questions, comments, complaints? —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#ffa500">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 20:38, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
and many more
+
:Sounds like a good plan. AWB could probably be used to move everything in [[:Category:Alliances with multiple incarnations]] to a (disambiguation) page. Then, assuming you can make a custom list of pages to go through (it's been forever since I've used it), feed the most recent incarnation into it and have it both move it and insert a hatnote linking to the (1st) article. If there are alliances with more than two incarnations, at that point, it's probably worth the hatnote just linking to the (disambiguation) page. <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">~ [[User:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#d40000;">vonPreu<span style="font-size:larger; position:relative;top:2px;right:1px;">''ſ''</span></span>]][[User talk:Michael von Preußen#top|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;right:2px;">3en</span>]]</span>
   
It seems like what the company did was go to the CN Wiki and then just copy-and-paste everything onto a book. They have also done this to the UTAU Wiki, Wikipedia (English and German, they may have done it to others), and many others. For a full list of the wiki's they took info from that's hosted by Wikia, go here:
+
:One question, actually: what about multiple-incarnation alliances where every incarnation is defunct? It might be better to just leave those as-is. <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">~ [[User:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#d40000;">vonPreu<span style="font-size:larger; position:relative;top:2px;right:1px;">''ſ''</span></span>]][[User talk:Michael von Preußen#top|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;right:2px;">3en</span>]]</span>
   
https://www.google.com/search?q=inauthor:%22Source+Wikia%22&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=bks&ei=g_vNT4zQI-rM2gXmn5nMDA&start=0&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=578
+
:: I'd agree with that; probably easiest just to leave it unless someone wants to waste a whole bunch of free time or it becomes a problem. (Also, support since I suggested it in the first place). <small><span style="border:2px solid green;"><span style="background:green;">[[User:Gopherbashi|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">Gopherbashi</span>]] </span>&nbsp;<span style="color:green">Sanction Race Updater</span> </span></small>&nbsp; 00:44, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
I thought that the CN Wiki should know about this so they can do something about it if they can. - [[User:Zabuza825|Zabuza825]] ([[User talk:Zabuza825|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Zabuza825|contribs]]) 01:21, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
+
:This is what is already being done over at wikipedia at any rate. Makes sense to implement it. As far as the issue of defunct multiple-incarnation alliances, I think its OK to leave that but if someone wants to volunteer their own time to do it, why not? [[User:CloudSpirit|CloudSpirit]] ([[User talk:CloudSpirit|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/CloudSpirit|contribs]]) 00:51, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
:Well that's kinda weird...any lawyers around to tell us if we can do anything? Otherwise, I doubt anyone would buy those books, so...I guess we'll ignore them? &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">21:54, Wednesday, 18 July 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
::I don't think there's anything that can be done unfortunately.{{User:RogalDorn/sig|17:47,8/18/2012}}
 
   
== Just curious ==
+
: This is a good idea. I support it. -- [[User:Baltus7|<font color=green>'''Baltus'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Baltus7|Talk]])</sup> 01:08, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
  +
  +
:This is a good idea and I fully support it. This should be the standard procedure going forward, and alliances that are active should be updated to reflect this. Defunct alliances with no current incarnation can be changed based on the availability of editing resources. [[User:J Andres|J Andres]] ([[User talk:J Andres|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/J Andres|contribs]]) 01:26, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
Who uses what links in the top navigation? Because I am guessing hardly anyone uses the diplomacy and half of the other ones. I'm trying to think of some better replacements we could make for them. One example being Active treaties instead of "Category:Treaties". I think a link to "Category:Current events" would be useful too. A link to [[Alliance forums and IRC list]] would be quite handy, it would have to be updated though, which I have no problem doing. I think a lot of the links and utilities, Diplomacy tab and community tab could be updated with more relevant or with things that provide more assistance, anyone else think so or have ideas for it? Below is a list of the navigation and in bold are items that are on the front page as well as on the top navigation.
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:I support this idea wholeheartedly. [[User:Franz Ferdinand|Franz Ferdinand, Conquerer of Micros]] ([[User talk:Franz Ferdinand|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Franz Ferdinand|contribs]])
   
*Special:SpecialPages|Links and utilities
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:Sounds good. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">21:38, Thursday, 24 July 2014 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
**<nowiki>http://www.cybernations.net/|Cyber Nations</nowiki>
 
**<nowiki>http://tournament.cybernations.net/|CN: Tournament Edition</nowiki>
 
**'''Category:HowtoPlay|How to Play'''
 
**Special:RecentChanges|Recent Changes
 
**Special:Watchlist|Watchlist
 
**'''Special:CreatePage|Create Page'''
 
**Special:Upload|Upload ({{color|red|cut off from tab}})
 
*Category:Diplomacy|Diplomacy
 
**'''Category:Alliances|Alliances'''
 
**List of sanctioned alliances|Sanctioned Alliances
 
**Category:Alliance groups|Blocs
 
**Category:Treaties|Treaties
 
**Category:Wars|Wars
 
*'''Category:Roleplay|Roleplay'''
 
**'''Category:Military|Military'''
 
**Category:Philosophies|Philosophy
 
**Category:Political ideologies|Political Ideology
 
**Category:Religion|Religion
 
**Category:Sports|Sports
 
**'''Category:History|CN History'''
 
**'''Category:Nations|Nations'''
 
*Cyber Nations Wiki:Community Portal|Community
 
**'''Help:Contents|Help Desk'''
 
**'''Cyber Nations Wiki Talk:Village Pump|Village Pump'''
 
**<nowiki>http://forums.cybernations.net/|CN Forums</nowiki>
 
**'''<nowiki>irc://irc.coldfront.net/cn-wiki|CN Wiki IRC Channel</nowiki>'''
 
**'''Cyber Nations Wiki:Report vandalism|Report Vandalism'''
 
**Category:Cyber Nations Wiki administrators|Contact Admins
 
**Special:Contact|Contact Wikia ({{color|red|cut off from tab}})
 
   
Just curious. &#32;<small><span style="border:1px solid #016CCF; border-radius:1.5em 0em"><span style="background:#016CCF; border-top-left-radius:1.5em;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="font-family:'Lucida Console';color:#FFFFFF;text-shadow:#000000 .1em -.2em .7em">Rogal</span>]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:RogalDorn|<span style="font-size:smaller;font-family:'Lucida Console';color:#016CCF;text-shadow:#016CCF .1em -.2em .7em">talk</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style="white-space:nowrap;"><span style="font-size:smaller;font-family:'Lucida Console';color:#016CCF">&nbsp;17:55,11/19/2012&nbsp;(UTC)</span></span></small>
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=== Alliances fitting the "only do current" criteria ===
:I dunno how much the navigation is used by people who come here casually or just when they need to. I've habituated myself into finding what I need through other means, so I don't usually use it much unless I remember something being in there. We should definitely fix it so that those couple links aren't cut off, at least. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">15:41, Monday, 19 November 2012 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
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*[[Viridian Entente (2nd)]] - {{done}}
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*[[Valhalla (2nd)]]
  +
*[[Socialist Workers Front (3rd)]]
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*[[State of Unified Nations (2nd)]]
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*[[The Imperial Order (2nd)]]
  +
*[[National Alliance of Arctic Countries (2nd)]]
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*[[United Republic of Nations (2nd)]]
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*[[Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism]]
  +
*[[Knights of the Round Table (2nd)]]
  +
*[[Nordreich (2nd)]]
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*[[Federation of Buccaneers (2nd)]]
  +
If anyone can think of any other alliances please list them. —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#008BE3">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 01:30, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
   
==Upcoming Wikimedia changes==
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:I should clarify: the reason I commented about defunct alliances was less to do with editing resources, and more to do with the fact that if an alliance is defunct, I'd posit there can be less of a presumption that users will necessarily be looking for the most recent incarnation. I'm not really concerned either way, but it's just a thought for discussion. <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">~ [[User:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#d40000;">vonPreu<span style="font-size:larger; position:relative;top:2px;right:1px;">''ſ''</span></span>]][[User talk:Michael von Preußen#top|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;right:2px;">3en</span>]]</span>
A couple of months ago I [[User talk:Michael von Preußen#I hate WP even more now.|vented on MvP's talk page]] about the new notification system on Wikipedia and [http://www.dailydot.com/news/wikipedia-redesign-athena-project/ an article] was brought up about more upcoming changes in the future being pushed out by the Wikimedia Foundation such as [[MediaWikiWiki:flow Portal|Flow]], [[MediaWikiWiki:Athena|Athena]], [[MediaWikiWiki:GlobalProfile/design|Global profile]] and then there is [[MediaWikiWiki:VisualEditor|VisualEditor]] and [[MediaWikiWiki:Echo (notifications)|Echo]] (both of which have been released). Ultimately I feel as if WMF is not interactign with the community enough about these changes and if they are needed/warranted. They say that they are ultimately about modernizing wikipedia which is fine, and are focused towards editor retention because editor retention is in decline (has been for a number of years). However, I feel that a lot of these changes are going to cause more established users to leave and won't "bring in" enough younger contributors. I think they should look at it differently and better develop existing methods or creating new ones that try to retain new editors. —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#ffa500">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:57, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
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::True, but if they've been gone since that long ago, people are less likely even to know that there were previous incarnations. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">21:38, Thursday, 24 July 2014 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
   
===[[MediaWikiWiki:flow Portal|Flow]]===
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==Post Preservation==
There's so much to this I dislike. I loath is the fact that they are getting rid of custom signatures when Flow is released ([https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow_Portal/FAQ#What_happens_to_my_custom_signature.3F link]). I asked the lead developer why and got [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Jorm_(WMF)#Custom_signatures_.26_FLOW this reply] which I don't buy or like. —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#ffa500">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:57, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
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If you're reading this then you are one of the few people who carry out any updates and edits here. I'll get to the point - one day the CN forum is going to be dead but I believe that this wikia will be around for a long time to come as it's part of something bigger and has more money behind it.
   
Here is the FLOW sandbox if anyone is interested... [http://ee-flow.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:Flow/Sandbox http://ee-flow.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:Flow/Sandbox] —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#008BE3">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 22:18, October 22, 2013 (UTC)
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We're already seeing it now, for example all the links on the [[Great War III]] page to the old Invision forum no longer work as the entire Invision product line was terminated. As far as I can tell there is no archival history of that forum anywhere, so years of CN history has been permanently lost.
   
===[[MediaWikiWiki:Athena|Athena]]===
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There is one solution though, we screen shot important/relevant posts (such as DoWs, etc) and use the rather underutilized-gallery feature to attach them to their associated pages, or set up sub pages if the gallery gets massive. I've done a little test on the [[Hazardous Materials War]] page. Even if/when CN dies forever and the forum is lost, at least people can see some of what was said. -- [[User:Imperial Empire|Imperial Empire]] ([[User talk:Imperial Empire|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Imperial Empire|contribs]]) 01:37, August 5, 2019 (UTC)
I haven't really read up on it at all to be honest. But visually it doesn't look bad... not that that says much. <span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#ffa500">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:57, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
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:Looks like Admin [https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/tapatalksupport/any-way-to-save-this-invisionfree-forum-t42517.html missed the boat] on getting a copy of the forum. Unless he got one and it's stored somewhere else. Anyway, your idea definitely sounds good as a way to make sure important information continues to be visible in the future. We could also use collapsible elements for large galleries so you don't have to go to a different page. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">23:36, Sunday, 4 August 2019 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
   
===[[MediaWikiWiki:GlobalProfile/design|Global profile]]===
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::I somehow doubt Admin got a copy of the forum so I think it's now lost to the sands of time. It would have been handy if he did, but taking screen shots is likely our best way forward. I like the idea about making them collapsible, that will save space. -- [[User:Imperial Empire|Imperial Empire]] ([[User talk:Imperial Empire|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Imperial Empire|contribs]]) 04:40, August 5, 2019 (UTC)
I strongly dislike it as it seems that WMF is trying to add a social network-esque profile for all their projects. Along with custom signatures I like the ability to customize how I appear to others in my signature and userpages. —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#ffa500">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:57, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
===[[MediaWikiWiki:VisualEditor|VisualEditor]]===
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::It's also worth exploring the extent to which the contents of the old Invision forum have been saved via the Wayback Machine, and other internet archive services. I have to imagine some of the old forum has been swept up in the Wayback Machine—there are 6,751 individual pages saved under the main branch "http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/"—even if individual alliance forums might be truly be lost forever. --[[User:FuturePerfected|FuturePerfected]] ([[User talk:FuturePerfected|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/FuturePerfected|contribs]]) 03:57, August 28, 2019 (UTC)
When WMF released this on Wikipedia they were bombarded by the community for making it the default editor for all accounts new and old and not allowing anyone to opt-out despite saying before-hand that there would be an option. Very shortly after it was released a few users made custom scripts to remove it from displaying but didn't prevent it from still loading. This eventually (over 3ish months) led WMF to disable it for all accounts and making it Opt-in only. Afterwhich WMF stated that only .3% of the active users switched to the visual editor ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Disallow_VE_software_changes_from_the_WMF_for_the_foreseeable_future link]). —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#ffa500">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:57, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
===[[MediaWikiWiki:Echo (notifications)|Echo (notifications)]]===
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:::I had a brief look at the Wayback Machine but there's only 30 entries on there and from what I can tell most of those are the logo image. I'm not sure what other internet archive sites there might be that could have captured it but I think that the chances of retrieving anything usable from them unfortunately might be slim to none. -- [[User:Imperial Empire|Imperial Empire]] ([[User talk:Imperial Empire|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Imperial Empire|contribs]]) 02:56, August 29, 2019 (UTC)
When WMF initially released Echo and removed the old "Orange Bar of Doom" Wikipedians were once again angry about Wikipedia becoming more facebookish and while nothing changed as far as notifications goes WMF added back in a smaller Orange Bar of Doom to inform individuals of new talk page messages. They also added an option in preferences that will provide a larger orange bar popup for talk page notifications that provides a diff of the new messages since the last time the user checked their talk page. Once it was all said and done and they added back in orange bars and the preferences option I don't mind it. I like being notified whenever anyone links my username to a discussion or reverts and edit of mine, etc. —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#ffa500">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:57, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 
   
hey, what is the license for your pic (http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/File:Draco.jpg) can i use it?
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::::Do you know if there have been any attempts at doing an Oral History of CN, with various folks from 2006 and 2007? It might also be worth approaching the oldest alliances still around—I'm thinking NPO, NpO, IRON, etc.—and seeing if there are screenshots of the most important missing declarations floating around on the oldest parts of their forums.

Latest revision as of 17:35, August 29, 2019

Shortcut:
CN:PUMP

Welcome to the Village Pump. This used by the Cyber Nations Wiki community mainly to discuss topics regarding technical issues, policies, and operations of the CN Wiki. If you add a topic and want to notify other users-feel free to use Template:Pumpnotice as a means to inform them via their user talk page. For a list of relatively active users see CN:USERS.


Added tidbit to CN:STYLEEdit

I added the CN:LEAD section to the CN:STYLE policy. I pretty much just copied Wikipedia and their WP:LEAD but it makes sense and is easy enough to follow. Any thoughts, comments, concerns, complaints? —  RogalDorn   03:12, June 7, 2014 (UTC)

This makes sense and looks good to me. It is a good idea to incorporate this section. No complaints from me! J Andres (talk • contribs) 04:00, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
I to am fine with this. -- Imperial Empire (talk • contribs) 06:21, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
I'd have no gripes which this at all. As you are one of the most enthusiastic wiki editors here, I will trust your judgment and will offer my support for your idea. Franz Ferdinand, Conquerer of Micros (talk • contribs) 07:42, June 7, 2014‎
Thanks, looks like I have a few things to update.--ScourgeNPO (talk • contribs) 20:01, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
Looks good to me.  Bobogoobo | Talk | Nation 21:52, Saturday, 7 June 2014 (ET)
Just adding to the chorus here, but good to have. I'll look into changing some of my intros when I have the time CloudSpirit (talk • contribs) 09:39, June 8, 2014 (UTC)
Looks good. Gopherbashi  Sanction Race Updater   16:09, June 8, 2014 (UTC)
Be interesting to see if the Leads for all the alliance articles can be used for recruitment and other things. Be interesting to see where this leads. --Zeta Defender (talk • contribs) 08:56, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
Well, that all depends on how it's written I suppose, keeping in mind articles aren't supposed to be biased or have nonfactual statements and other things which are covered under Other miscellaneous guidelines of CN:STYLE. For instance, many members of DBDC hold in-game records/awards so it's acceptable to state that they have many members who have in-game records/awards, because it's true. What the other misc guidelines is meant to curtail is obvious bias and nonfactual statements and such, like saying "GPA is the premier alliance in Cyber Nations" there's no backing there, nothing to support that. However, saying "GPA is the second highest alliance by nation strength" is acceptable, because you look at the Alliances page and GPA is right there at #2. Then there's other "non-controversial" type statements, like on the Sengoku page in the lead we have "Members of Sengoku consider themselves to be in large part a successor to the defunct Ordinary Men Fighting Giants and Basketball Ninjas alliance." Hope this helps Zeta. —  RogalDorn   11:21, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Alliances with multiple incarnations and the default alliance name Edit

So, Gopherbashi initially brought up a good issue regarding Viridian Entente and Viridian Entente (2nd) on their respective talk pages; "Perhaps it's time that this article was just named "Viridian Entente", with a note at the top referring people to "Viridian Entente (1st)" if that's what they're looking for." I certainly agree with him that alliance names and acronyms should link to the most recent incarnation of the alliance since 99% of the time that's what people are looking for anyway.Especially since VE has been around in it's second incarnation since 2007... This begs the question of "Well, what are we going to do for a disambiguation page (sometimes just called a "dab" page) then? Well, glad you asked. Viridian Entente (disambiguation) isn't taken. And on the top of each alliance incarnation page we can have a little note (sometimes called a "hatnote") that says "For other incarnations of <alliance name>, see alliance (disambiguation)". It's relatively easy to see what needs to get done by sifting through Category:Alliances with multiple incarnations. Anyone have any better suggestions, ideas, questions, comments, complaints? —  RogalDorn   20:38, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Sounds like a good plan. AWB could probably be used to move everything in Category:Alliances with multiple incarnations to a (disambiguation) page. Then, assuming you can make a custom list of pages to go through (it's been forever since I've used it), feed the most recent incarnation into it and have it both move it and insert a hatnote linking to the (1st) article. If there are alliances with more than two incarnations, at that point, it's probably worth the hatnote just linking to the (disambiguation) page. ~ vonPreuſ3en
One question, actually: what about multiple-incarnation alliances where every incarnation is defunct? It might be better to just leave those as-is. ~ vonPreuſ3en
I'd agree with that; probably easiest just to leave it unless someone wants to waste a whole bunch of free time or it becomes a problem. (Also, support since I suggested it in the first place). Gopherbashi  Sanction Race Updater   00:44, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
This is what is already being done over at wikipedia at any rate. Makes sense to implement it. As far as the issue of defunct multiple-incarnation alliances, I think its OK to leave that but if someone wants to volunteer their own time to do it, why not? CloudSpirit (talk • contribs) 00:51, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
This is a good idea. I support it. -- Baltus (Talk) 01:08, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
This is a good idea and I fully support it. This should be the standard procedure going forward, and alliances that are active should be updated to reflect this. Defunct alliances with no current incarnation can be changed based on the availability of editing resources. J Andres (talk • contribs) 01:26, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
I support this idea wholeheartedly. Franz Ferdinand, Conquerer of Micros (talk • contribs)
Sounds good.  Bobogoobo | Talk | Nation 21:38, Thursday, 24 July 2014 (ET)

Alliances fitting the "only do current" criteria Edit

If anyone can think of any other alliances please list them. —  RogalDorn   01:30, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

I should clarify: the reason I commented about defunct alliances was less to do with editing resources, and more to do with the fact that if an alliance is defunct, I'd posit there can be less of a presumption that users will necessarily be looking for the most recent incarnation. I'm not really concerned either way, but it's just a thought for discussion. ~ vonPreuſ3en
True, but if they've been gone since that long ago, people are less likely even to know that there were previous incarnations.  Bobogoobo | Talk | Nation 21:38, Thursday, 24 July 2014 (ET)

Post PreservationEdit

If you're reading this then you are one of the few people who carry out any updates and edits here. I'll get to the point - one day the CN forum is going to be dead but I believe that this wikia will be around for a long time to come as it's part of something bigger and has more money behind it.

We're already seeing it now, for example all the links on the Great War III page to the old Invision forum no longer work as the entire Invision product line was terminated. As far as I can tell there is no archival history of that forum anywhere, so years of CN history has been permanently lost.

There is one solution though, we screen shot important/relevant posts (such as DoWs, etc) and use the rather underutilized-gallery feature to attach them to their associated pages, or set up sub pages if the gallery gets massive. I've done a little test on the Hazardous Materials War page. Even if/when CN dies forever and the forum is lost, at least people can see some of what was said. -- Imperial Empire (talk • contribs) 01:37, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

Looks like Admin missed the boat on getting a copy of the forum. Unless he got one and it's stored somewhere else. Anyway, your idea definitely sounds good as a way to make sure important information continues to be visible in the future. We could also use collapsible elements for large galleries so you don't have to go to a different page.  Bobogoobo | Talk | Nation 23:36, Sunday, 4 August 2019 (ET)
I somehow doubt Admin got a copy of the forum so I think it's now lost to the sands of time. It would have been handy if he did, but taking screen shots is likely our best way forward. I like the idea about making them collapsible, that will save space. -- Imperial Empire (talk • contribs) 04:40, August 5, 2019 (UTC)
It's also worth exploring the extent to which the contents of the old Invision forum have been saved via the Wayback Machine, and other internet archive services. I have to imagine some of the old forum has been swept up in the Wayback Machine—there are 6,751 individual pages saved under the main branch "http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/"—even if individual alliance forums might be truly be lost forever. --FuturePerfected (talk • contribs) 03:57, August 28, 2019 (UTC)
I had a brief look at the Wayback Machine but there's only 30 entries on there and from what I can tell most of those are the logo image. I'm not sure what other internet archive sites there might be that could have captured it but I think that the chances of retrieving anything usable from them unfortunately might be slim to none. -- Imperial Empire (talk • contribs) 02:56, August 29, 2019 (UTC)
Do you know if there have been any attempts at doing an Oral History of CN, with various folks from 2006 and 2007? It might also be worth approaching the oldest alliances still around—I'm thinking NPO, NpO, IRON, etc.—and seeing if there are screenshots of the most important missing declarations floating around on the oldest parts of their forums.
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