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Welcome to the '''Village Pump'''. This used by the Cyber Nations Wiki community mainly to discuss topics regarding technical issues, policies, and operations of the CN Wiki. If you add a topic and want to notify other users-feel free to use [[Template:Pumpnotice]] as a means to inform them via their user talk page. For a list of relatively active users see [[CN:USERS]].
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Welcome to the '''Village Pump'''. This used by the Cyber Nations Wiki community mainly to discuss topics regarding technical issues, policies, and operations of the CN Wiki.
[[Category:Cyber Nations Wiki administration]]
 
   
 
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:Thanks, looks like I have a few things to update.--[[User:ScourgeNPO|ScourgeNPO]] ([[User talk:ScourgeNPO|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ScourgeNPO|contribs]]) 20:01, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
 
:Thanks, looks like I have a few things to update.--[[User:ScourgeNPO|ScourgeNPO]] ([[User talk:ScourgeNPO|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ScourgeNPO|contribs]]) 20:01, June 7, 2014 (UTC)
 
:Looks good to me. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">21:52, Saturday, 7 June 2014 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
:Looks good to me. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">21:52, Saturday, 7 June 2014 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
:Just adding to the chorus here, but good to have. I'll look into changing some of my intros when I have the time [[User:CloudSpirit|CloudSpirit]] ([[User talk:CloudSpirit|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/CloudSpirit|contribs]]) 09:39, June 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
:Looks good. <small><span style="border:2px solid green;"><span style="background:green;">[[User:Gopherbashi|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">Gopherbashi</span>]] </span>&nbsp;<span style="color:green">Sanction Race Updater</span> </span></small>&nbsp; 16:09, June 8, 2014 (UTC)
 
:Be interesting to see if the Leads for all the alliance articles can be used for recruitment and other things. Be interesting to see where this leads. --[[User:Zeta Defender|Zeta Defender]] ([[User talk:Zeta Defender|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Zeta Defender|contribs]]) 08:56, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 
::Well, that all depends on how it's written I suppose, keeping in mind articles aren't supposed to be biased or have nonfactual statements and other things which are covered under [[CN:STYLE#Other_Miscellaneous_Guidelines|Other miscellaneous guidelines]] of [[CN:STYLE]]. For instance, many members of [[DBDC]] hold [http://www.cybernations.net/stats_awards.asp in-game records/awards] so it's acceptable to state that they have many members who have in-game records/awards, because it's true. What the other misc guidelines is meant to curtail is obvious bias and nonfactual statements and such, like saying "[[GPA]] is the premier alliance in Cyber Nations" there's no backing there, nothing to support that. However, saying "GPA is the second highest alliance by [[nation strength]]" is acceptable, because you look at the Alliances page and GPA is right there at #2. Then there's other "non-controversial" type statements, like on the [[Sengoku]] page in the lead we have "''Members of Sengoku consider themselves to be in large part a successor to the defunct [[Ordinary Men Fighting Giants]] and [[Basketball Ninjas]] alliance.''" Hope this helps Zeta. —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#ffa500">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 11:21, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
== Alliances with multiple incarnations and the default alliance name ==
 
 
So, [[User:Gopherbashi|Gopherbashi]] initially brought up a good issue regarding [[Viridian Entente]] and [[Viridian Entente (2nd)]] on their respective talk pages; "''Perhaps it's time that this article was just named "Viridian Entente", with a note at the top referring people to "Viridian Entente (1st)" if that's what they're looking for."'' I certainly agree with him that alliance names and acronyms should link to the most recent incarnation of the alliance since 99% of the time that's what people are looking for anyway.Especially since VE has been around in it's second incarnation since 2007... This begs the question of "Well, what are we going to do for a disambiguation page (sometimes just called a "dab" page) then? Well, glad you asked. [[Viridian Entente (disambiguation)]] isn't taken. And on the top of each alliance incarnation page we can have a little note (sometimes called a "hatnote") that says "For other incarnations of <alliance name>, see [[alliance (disambiguation)]]". It's relatively easy to see what needs to get done by sifting through [[:Category:Alliances with multiple incarnations]]. Anyone have any better suggestions, ideas, questions, comments, complaints? —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#ffa500">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 20:38, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
:Sounds like a good plan. AWB could probably be used to move everything in [[:Category:Alliances with multiple incarnations]] to a (disambiguation) page. Then, assuming you can make a custom list of pages to go through (it's been forever since I've used it), feed the most recent incarnation into it and have it both move it and insert a hatnote linking to the (1st) article. If there are alliances with more than two incarnations, at that point, it's probably worth the hatnote just linking to the (disambiguation) page. <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">~ [[User:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#d40000;">vonPreu<span style="font-size:larger; position:relative;top:2px;right:1px;">''ſ''</span></span>]][[User talk:Michael von Preußen#top|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;right:2px;">3en</span>]]</span>
 
 
:One question, actually: what about multiple-incarnation alliances where every incarnation is defunct? It might be better to just leave those as-is. <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">~ [[User:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#d40000;">vonPreu<span style="font-size:larger; position:relative;top:2px;right:1px;">''ſ''</span></span>]][[User talk:Michael von Preußen#top|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;right:2px;">3en</span>]]</span>
 
 
:: I'd agree with that; probably easiest just to leave it unless someone wants to waste a whole bunch of free time or it becomes a problem. (Also, support since I suggested it in the first place). <small><span style="border:2px solid green;"><span style="background:green;">[[User:Gopherbashi|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">Gopherbashi</span>]] </span>&nbsp;<span style="color:green">Sanction Race Updater</span> </span></small>&nbsp; 00:44, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
:This is what is already being done over at wikipedia at any rate. Makes sense to implement it. As far as the issue of defunct multiple-incarnation alliances, I think its OK to leave that but if someone wants to volunteer their own time to do it, why not? [[User:CloudSpirit|CloudSpirit]] ([[User talk:CloudSpirit|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/CloudSpirit|contribs]]) 00:51, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
: This is a good idea. I support it. -- [[User:Baltus7|<font color=green>'''Baltus'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Baltus7|Talk]])</sup> 01:08, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
:This is a good idea and I fully support it. This should be the standard procedure going forward, and alliances that are active should be updated to reflect this. Defunct alliances with no current incarnation can be changed based on the availability of editing resources. [[User:J Andres|J Andres]] ([[User talk:J Andres|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/J Andres|contribs]]) 01:26, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
:I support this idea wholeheartedly. [[User:Franz Ferdinand|Franz Ferdinand, Conquerer of Micros]] ([[User talk:Franz Ferdinand|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Franz Ferdinand|contribs]])
 
 
:Sounds good. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">21:38, Thursday, 24 July 2014 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
 
=== Alliances fitting the "only do current" criteria ===
 
*[[Viridian Entente (2nd)]] - {{done}}
 
*[[Valhalla (2nd)]]
 
*[[Socialist Workers Front (3rd)]]
 
*[[State of Unified Nations (2nd)]]
 
*[[The Imperial Order (2nd)]]
 
*[[National Alliance of Arctic Countries (2nd)]]
 
*[[United Republic of Nations (2nd)]]
 
*[[Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism]]
 
*[[Knights of the Round Table (2nd)]]
 
*[[Nordreich (2nd)]]
 
*[[Federation of Buccaneers (2nd)]]
 
If anyone can think of any other alliances please list them. —<span style="font-family:'century gothic';background:black;border-radius:2em 0;">&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:RogalDorn|<span style="color:#008BE3">Rogal</span>]][[User_talk:RogalDorn#top|<span style="color:#808080">Dorn</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 01:30, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 
 
:I should clarify: the reason I commented about defunct alliances was less to do with editing resources, and more to do with the fact that if an alliance is defunct, I'd posit there can be less of a presumption that users will necessarily be looking for the most recent incarnation. I'm not really concerned either way, but it's just a thought for discussion. <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">~ [[User:Michael von Preußen|<span style="color:#d40000;">vonPreu<span style="font-size:larger; position:relative;top:2px;right:1px;">''ſ''</span></span>]][[User talk:Michael von Preußen#top|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;right:2px;">3en</span>]]</span>
 
::True, but if they've been gone since that long ago, people are less likely even to know that there were previous incarnations. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">21:38, Thursday, 24 July 2014 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
 
==Post Preservation==
 
If you're reading this then you are one of the few people who carry out any updates and edits here. I'll get to the point - one day the CN forum is going to be dead but I believe that this wikia will be around for a long time to come as it's part of something bigger and has more money behind it.
 
 
We're already seeing it now, for example all the links on the [[Great War III]] page to the old Invision forum no longer work as the entire Invision product line was terminated. As far as I can tell there is no archival history of that forum anywhere, so years of CN history has been permanently lost.
 
 
There is one solution though, we screen shot important/relevant posts (such as DoWs, etc) and use the rather underutilized-gallery feature to attach them to their associated pages, or set up sub pages if the gallery gets massive. I've done a little test on the [[Hazardous Materials War]] page. Even if/when CN dies forever and the forum is lost, at least people can see some of what was said. -- [[User:Imperial Empire|Imperial Empire]] ([[User talk:Imperial Empire|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Imperial Empire|contribs]]) 01:37, August 5, 2019 (UTC)
 
:Looks like Admin [https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/tapatalksupport/any-way-to-save-this-invisionfree-forum-t42517.html missed the boat] on getting a copy of the forum. Unless he got one and it's stored somewhere else. Anyway, your idea definitely sounds good as a way to make sure important information continues to be visible in the future. We could also use collapsible elements for large galleries so you don't have to go to a different page. &nbsp;<span style="background:blue; padding:6px 3px; font-size:smaller; border-radius:15px;"><span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-left:5px; border-radius:15px 0 0 15px; white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Bobogoobo|{{color|yellow|'''Bobogoobo'''}}]] {{!}} [[User talk:Bobogoobo|{{color|orange|Talk}}]] {{!}} [[Bobogoobo|{{color|green|Nation}}]]</span>&#32;<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:3px; padding-right:5px; border-radius:0 15px 15px 0; white-space:nowrap;">23:36, Sunday, 4 August 2019 ({{wikipedia|Eastern Time Zone|ET|color=#FFF}})</span></span>&#32;
 
 
::I somehow doubt Admin got a copy of the forum so I think it's now lost to the sands of time. It would have been handy if he did, but taking screen shots is likely our best way forward. I like the idea about making them collapsible, that will save space. -- [[User:Imperial Empire|Imperial Empire]] ([[User talk:Imperial Empire|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Imperial Empire|contribs]]) 04:40, August 5, 2019 (UTC)
 
 
::It's also worth exploring the extent to which the contents of the old Invision forum have been saved via the Wayback Machine, and other internet archive services. I have to imagine some of the old forum has been swept up in the Wayback Machine—there are 6,751 individual pages saved under the main branch "http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/"—even if individual alliance forums might be truly be lost forever. --[[User:FuturePerfected|FuturePerfected]] ([[User talk:FuturePerfected|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/FuturePerfected|contribs]]) 03:57, August 28, 2019 (UTC)
 
 
:::I had a brief look at the Wayback Machine but there's only 30 entries on there and from what I can tell most of those are the logo image. I'm not sure what other internet archive sites there might be that could have captured it but I think that the chances of retrieving anything usable from them unfortunately might be slim to none. -- [[User:Imperial Empire|Imperial Empire]] ([[User talk:Imperial Empire|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Imperial Empire|contribs]]) 02:56, August 29, 2019 (UTC)
 
 
::::Do you know if there have been any attempts at doing an Oral History of CN, with various folks from 2006 and 2007? It might also be worth approaching the oldest alliances still around—I'm thinking NPO, NpO, IRON, etc.—and seeing if there are screenshots of the most important missing declarations floating around on the oldest parts of their forums.
 
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