The Tattler/Sound And Fury

Sound And Fury was a story posted on The Tattler by Electron Sponge on April 19, 2009.

Sound And Fury
Lately there’s been a lot of war talk going on, and for the most part no one seems to know why there will be a war at all. Fear not, gentle readers. The Ministry of Science is on the case and we’re going to tell you just what’s going on and who is headed down the road to war. Thanks go out to the dedicated Vox Populi agents behind enemy lines for procuring this information for us. I will note that as a general rule I don’t post chat logs in this publication, but since this information is important to quite a few people it needs to be released in the most convenient and plausible means. That means posting logs.

In a nutshell, TPF and TORN have accused Ordo Verde of a number of things: cooperation with Blackstone Collusion (BC), holding a treaty with BC, receiving screenshots of the NPO forum from BC, and knowingly accepting a BC member into their alliance. In particular, the two Ordo Verde members they are accusing of these “crimes” are MrDuffy and sethb. TPF also accuses MrDuffy of operating against their interests for telling people that the TPF-Valhalla cancellation was nothing but a ruse and in 15 days it would be an upgraded treaty. Given that the Ministry of Science actually broke the story of the ruse wide open on the CN forum shortly after the cancellation thread was posted this seems like a real stretch.

In the interests of peace and public service, the Ministry of Science will now present the logs of the mediation discussions between the two sides in this conflict. Please note that information regarding IP addresses and channel names have been replaced with x’s. Some extraneous personal comments have been removed. These sessions are being mediated by TOP and it does seem as though they are doing their best to maintain a fair atmosphere. Given the behavior of the TPF, TORN, and NPO participants in these talks this has proven increasingly difficult. They do deserve credit for the effort they are putting forward however.

Discussion 1 — Accusations and Veiled Threats
<&mhawk> So here is alittle deal I like to do <&mhawk> we let out what our issue is, we wait for your response, you lie to us alot of bad stuff happens, I don’t think any of us want that. You tell us the truth that we know, we work out an amiable deal with our moderator <&Impero[VE]> creative <&OV|Mr-Duffy> well <&mhawk> we might as well have fun <&OV|Mr-Duffy> lay it out there then <&mhawk> it is a game after all <&mhawk> your member Dark_Angelus <&mhawk> were you aware he was a blackstone gov member when you accepted him immediately and let him skip your academy <&Crymson[TOP]> I think it’s in everyone’s interests to keep it civil here, guys. <&Crymson[TOP]> So let’s please try to be respectful to each other, no matter how this may or may not end. <&mhawk> prefectly reasonable crymson <&mhawk> it is a game, and its the weekend <&Impero[VE]> agreed <@Sol> I agree, it’s reasonable. <&Impero[VE]> i believe duffy is their MoIA so that would be his to answer <&OV|Mr-Duffy> tbh we have had quite a few recruits this month and the name sounds familier but thats about it <&OV|Mr-Duffy> I need to look at forums to see who this is for sure n see an OVID <&OV|Mr-Duffy> etc <&OV|Mr-Duffy> but to answer your question <&OV|Mr-Duffy> at this time No <&mhawk> alright i’ll make that down as answer #1 <&mhawk> are you guys aware of the player Vinoct_Materi <&mhawk> and what alliance/function he is <&OV|Mr-Duffy> well i know hes a BC guy but as far as any govt position no…. just a diplomat <&mhawk> *** Dark_Angelus (WebGuest13@coldfront-63EEA4D1.xx.xx.xxx.xxx) has joined #nso <&mhawk> *** Vinoct_Materi (SilentSpec@coldfront-63EEA4D1.xx.xx.xxx.xxx) has joined #iron <&Impero[VE]> with that, are you infering that they are the same person due to the fact that one exited and one joined? <&mhawk> I find it a bit odd he would be accepted and promoted with no academy <&mhawk> im inferrring it due to hostmask <&Impero[VE]> im not internet savvy really <&Impero[VE]> 63EEA4D1.xx.xx.xxx.xxx that part? <&mhawk> crymson could you explain <&Crymson[TOP]> Those are the whois signatures of the two nicknames in question; the part before the @ is determined by the user, while the part after the @ reflects the user’s IP address. <&Impero[VE]> ok <&Impero[VE]> thanks (honestly i dont know tech stuff lol) <&mhawk> it is the same guy <&Impero[VE]> or on the same campus <&Impero[VE]> correct? <&Crymson[TOP]> I think the part mhawk is pointing out is significant is that the IP addresses of the two whois signatures are identical, which would suggest that they originated from the same user. <&mhawk> and in his application he mentions being recruited by sethb and duffy <&bigwoody> hostmasks match 1:1 with IPs <&Impero[VE]> so that could be anything from roomates to people in a library to the same person right? <&bigwoody> no <&Crymson[TOP]> Unlikely. <&bigwoody> roommates would likely have two different IPs <&Impero[VE]> ok <&bigwoody> and the hostmask comes from a hash <&Crymson[TOP]> The ‘xx.xx.xxx.xxx’ reflects the ISP. <&bigwoody> 127.0.0.1 and 127.0.0.2 may have drastically different leading characters <&Impero[VE]> like i said, im not good with this stuff just gtting a clear picture of what that means <&Impero[VE]> not answering for duff, thats up to him <&OV|Mr-Duffy> so to answer the ? did i know they were the same no……. and sorry was checking forums for ip n such <&OV|Mr-Duffy> the reason this Dark was passed by the OVU was because of his size <@Sol> so it’s standard, to let people who apparently understand game mechanics to skip the academy then? <&OV|Mr-Duffy> yes <&mhawk> so when you said that blackstone was the shadow force you all cheer for, were you worried about how long a secret can last in cn? <&Impero[VE]> what? <&Impero[VE]> lol <&OV|Mr-Duffy> lol yeah wut? <&OV|Mr-Duffy> So if i personaly like BC shens along with vox n their owf threads think of em as entertaining and funny shit that ….what? <&mhawk> did you ever give info to them? <&Impero[VE]> can u define info <&OV|Mr-Duffy> like what… <&OV|Mr-Duffy> i had a rough test today <&Impero[VE]> because duffy said he chats with them, talking about current events and passing secrets are very different <&OV|Mr-Duffy> or omg… opsec info here ya go ..? <&mhawk> did you discuss making a secret treaty with blackstone/ <&OV|Mr-Duffy> ok thats two questions <&OV|Mr-Duffy> clarify the first <&OV|Mr-Duffy> and u know that BC has an embassy with us…. and that they proposed a treaty …. key word is PROPOSED <&mhawk> alright here is a question for sethb <&Impero[VE]> your moveing mighty quickly <@sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> yes? <&Impero[VE]> so were his answers to the last 2 questions satisfactory? <&Impero[VE]> before we move on <&OV|Mr-Duffy> slow down a bit mhawk youre skipping around <&mhawk> unless he has more to add to that <&mhawk> i noted them down <&Impero[VE]> good stuff <&mhawk> ok sethb <&mhawk> did you ever accept screenshots of the NPO forum regarding warchest sizes and promise to keep it only in OV <&OV|Mr-Duffy> lol what? I cant answer for seth but if there were shots of that im sure i woulda seen em <@sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> when they were given to me he didnt say what it was at first, it was only a link <@sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> then I said I wouldnt spread it <&Impero[VE]> how is not spreading it bad? <&mhawk> how positive are you of that sethb <&Impero[VE]> clarify that question? <@sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> yes please… <&mhawk> how positive are you he didnt tell you what they were first before you accepted the images and promised not to spead them outside of ov <@sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> 100% positive <&mhawk> particularly regarding security features ? <@sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> security features? <&OV|Mr-Duffy> clarify sec. features <&mhawk> the nature of those features I can not discuss without compromising my ally’s security, however I believe the question was direct enough. I was asking if he was aware that he was about to recieve spied screenshots with security features prior to accepting them <&mhawk> unless he wants to change his answer from no <&mhawk> we can move to the next question <@sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I was not aware of the nature of the screenshots until I clicked the link <&mhawk> I’m sorry to hear that sethb, i really am <&mhawk> I suggest we meet back early tomorrow <&Impero[VE]> well do you have proof otherwise? <&mhawk> and you guys can discuss your answers <&Impero[VE]> as their ally <&Impero[VE]> i would like to know if they are lieing to me <&mhawk> they are <&Impero[VE]> proof please <&mhawk> we’ll meet tomorrow <&OV|Mr-Duffy> whats wrong with now <&mhawk> seth can discuss it with you <&OV|Mr-Duffy> we are here <&mhawk> well unless there is a change in some of those answers I don’t think we can explore much more <&mhawk> but I am a bad negotiator <&mhawk> someone will be around tomorrow <&Impero[VE]> sounds good <&Dani_C> i’m guessing that there’s evidence to say that seth did in fact know <&Impero[VE]> in the mean time <&Impero[VE]> if you feel like proving your claims <&mhawk> they can sweat until there is honesty <&Impero[VE]> you are more then welcome <&mhawk> of course impero <&mhawk> we all hope to avoid this situatino <&mhawk> we really do <&OV|Mr-Duffy> there is no sweating it on my end <&Crymson[TOP]> Let’s try to keep it respectful. <@sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> none on mine either <&mhawk> but honesty in these matters is absolutely key to discussion <&Crymson[TOP]> Can we all agree that we’d like to avoid armed conflict over this matter? <@sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> Yes <&Impero[VE]> certainly <&mhawk> yep <&mhawk> I believe bigwoody is afk <&bigwoody> I am in and out <&Impero[VE]> lol hes been quiet for woody <&mhawk> agree that with honesty to our questions you’d like to avoid armed conflict woody <&mhawk> dork <&bigwoody> I had a long day at work <&bigwoody> I would appreciate honesty, yes <&Impero[VE]> well then, tomarow it is <@sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> what time? <&Dani_C> bah <&Dani_C> tomorrow’s no good for me either <&Impero[VE]> sometime when everyone is on :x lol <&OV|Mr-Duffy> well i wont be on till late if at all …..family first <&Dani_C> i won’t be on late <&Dani_C> and i can’t be on here much longer either <&Dani_C> am i needed for this at all? <&mhawk> I think you guys have enough to review <&mhawk> I hope we can work this out <&mhawk> and thanks for keeping it civil <&bigwoody> we only neeed duffy and sethb I believe, but youre welcome to join us again, Dani_C <&mhawk> I hope regardless of how you guys address our questions we remember this is a game and we’ll keep it all good <&Dani_C> i’m just asking because right now i’m supposed to be keeping an eye on my sister and her high school friends <&bigwoody> go ahead and take care of your RL stuff <&Impero[VE]> oh before we go <&mhawk> also impero, you might want to talk to hellscream <&Impero[VE]> what is TPF and TORN’s stake in this? sounds like an issue for NPO if anything <&Impero[VE]> mhawk if i talk to hellscream anymore my head will explode <&Impero[VE]> lol <&Impero[VE]> what did he do now <&Dani_C> alright, if you need me to answer anything, query me and i’ll send you a PM <&mhawk> might want to ask him about multies <&mhawk> and blackstone <&Dani_C> otherwise, i’m AFK <&mhawk> ok guys i need to get going <&mhawk> we’ll talk more tomorrow <&Impero[VE]> wonderfull, dont suppose you wanna be friendly and give me something more concrete…we just suspended him on suspicion actully <&mhawk> tpf’s stake in this <&Impero[VE]> last week <&mhawk> is we dont want a war <&mhawk> <&Impero[VE]> then we cleared him <&mhawk> and we dont like blackstone or sponge <&Impero[VE]> because nothing could be found <&mhawk> and we’ve caught several dozen spies <&mhawk> and would like it to stop being supported <&mhawk> I suggest you look deeply into it impero <&mhawk> im big on this honesty thing <&mhawk> letting folks come clean <&mhawk> my red neck ways <&Impero[VE]> beleive it or not, thanks for the heads up…hes one of the larger pains in the ass ive some across <&Impero[VE]> (hellscream) <&mhawk> k bye guys

This is actually a great example of how certain alliances have bullied their way around the game for the past year or so. First, they come in with threats and admonitions to ‘come clean’ and it will be much less painful on the accused. All they want to hear is ‘the truth’. Nonsense. All they want to hear is their version of events parroted back to them so they can send a few government officials of another alliance to ZI to make examples of them. The fear of this happening will keep other alliances in line and unquestioning of the hegemony’s mastery. They’ll paint their demands as a great deal given the alternative (the threat of the destruction of an entire alliance). As mhawk said, “we let out what our issue is, we wait for your response, you lie to us alot of bad stuff happens, I don’t think any of us want that. You tell us the truth that we know, we work out an amiable deal with our moderator”. This isn’t quite true. As you’ll see later, there is no intention on the part of the hegemonists to work out an amiable deal.

The next day, “evidence” of the “crimes” supposedly committed by Ordo Verde members was presented.

Discussion 2 — The Inquisition
 Ok  So  Basically  Duffy, did you conspire with Blackstone?  conspire? no  bullshit with  a little did sethb change his answer to you?  Would you say you dropped them information at all Duffy?  for claritys sake, can u define info?  I would say “classified information”  ok  i cant answer for seth but the answer to the best of my knowledge is no  classified no <~bigwoody> and sethb*  seth say sno  says no*  guys, theres alot of people would really like to see this put to bed peacefully :/ <~bigwoody> well <Impero[VE]> it would be prudent if we could negate the interrogations seeing as you made your points last night <Impero[VE]> i doubt they will change their answers, so lets work twards a peacefull resolution <Impero[VE]> know what i mean? <~bigwoody> ok <DrDan> Well <~bigwoody> look <~bigwoody> you said today it would be “impossible” for duffy or sethb to be available today, and THEN it turns out you two were hiding from all public channels <~bigwoody> we want a peaceful resolution right now, would that be correct DrDan, mhawk? <Impero[VE]> rayvon texted me that i should go ahead and talk for OV <Impero[VE]> because <xxxx redacted personal information xxxx> <DrDan> Yes, I’d like to get this resolved now, especially if no one will be on tomorrow. <~bigwoody> this is entirely related to duffy and sethb’s actions <OV|Mr-Duffy> wait a min i been on for a few min <OV|Mr-Duffy> i leave my irc on alot through the day <OV|Mr-Duffy> and night <Impero[VE]> with their name on the OWF and interrogations and whatnot, i cant blame them for staying out of public channels <OV|Mr-Duffy> sick of the queries so i stayed in the back channels <Impero[VE]> however i agree with dan, i would just like to see this resolved peacefully <Impero[VE]> its no secret alliances are in peacemode, tensions are high, i see no reason to continue portraying things agressively here and keeping the scrambleing going when it can be peacefully resolved now <Impero[VE]> im sure you would agree woody if ov admits to the wrong doings I believe that can be done <~bigwoody> agreed particularly sethb knowingly accepting screenshots of NPO forum after being explicitly warned of the nature and security features of that material <Impero[VE]> he adressed that yesterday <Impero[VE]> i believe we are at the point now where, if you can, you disprove what they said and of the talks sethb had with members of other alliances to covertly work to weaken our allies relations <Dani_C> woah, that one’s new <DrDan> Yes, I think that it would save us all a lot of problems if we were completely honest. <Impero[VE]> then we can work from there, if not we are just going to keep going around in circles causeing unknown drama the treaty talks that duffy had with deamenor <OV|Mr-Duffy> I had NO treaty talks with Demeanor here is the deal duffy we’re giving you the chance to come clean and we work it all out peacfully you should consider what could possibly be the evidence when i can ask such incredibly specific questions and think of whom could have betrayed your alliance and sethb I’d rather this blow be against blackstone than against ov <Impero[VE]> agreed and I supremely hope we can avert all of this <Impero[VE]> i think duffy understands he needs to be honest here if we all want to see peace <OV|Mr-Duffy> demeanor on that treaty prop was never talk to … <Impero[VE]> what i think the issue is <OV|Mr-Duffy> i never went to him about it <Impero[VE]> is context <Impero[VE]> how your claims are being phrased may be causeing confuseion <Dani_C> i think it was in poor taste that he continued to go to BC for intel <Impero[VE]> once agian a point i keep returning too, perhaps just putting our cards on the table would be best? <Dani_C> but he didn’t give them any classified information <Impero[VE]> he was never even government <Dani_C> accepting that SS was wrong, but he wasn’t aware of what it was from what i understand if you guys only fess up after we present evidence, what reassurence is there you wont continue these actions at times we don’t get so lucky with someone betraying you? <OV|Mr-Duffy> I will admit i talk to demeanor on a bullshit level … “hi how ya doing etc… hows life. Yeah the kids are a pain in the ass etc…. <Impero[VE]> a SS and talking to people about theories and current events isent really a cause for all these alliances being in peace mode and the explosion on the OWF is it? it all seems a bit agressive to me…i think the issue is more honesty on all sides then them “fessing up” <Impero[VE]> if we want peace here, we need to not hinder it if they will not be honest we have no place to go but there <Dani_C> we want to be sure that he’s guilty is the problem <Impero[VE]> you have shown us nothing to make them dishonest <Impero[VE]> excuse OV if they dont go on your interrogation alone <Dani_C> if he is, then by all means, we will admit to the wrongdoing and take all necessary steps to correct it we are not talking to ve  we’re talkign to ov <Impero[VE]> if your talking to OV, your talking to VE <Impero[VE]> we are brothers <OV|Mr-Duffy> so talkin about things that have been happening in owf and all the “lines” talk is what the issue is with seth? no accepting knowingly spy intel being warned about it before hand and promising to keep it safe BEFORE accepting it is an issue <Impero[VE]> and the screen shot was what agian? NPO warchest requirements? and I really hope you guys work out your specifics because you guys are not being honest here and we can’t reach an amiable solution until ov is honest ok guys go think about it.
 * ~bigwoody (microwoody@coldfront-89EE69AC.xxx.xx.xxxxxxx.xxx) has left #xxxxxxx
 * DrDan sighs

The gall of those Ordo Verde members refusing to admit to the crimes that TPF and TORN are accusing them of! It’s almost like they think they are innocent of something! It is made plain in this previous log that TPF in particular is not interested in hearing OV’s side of the story. They just want a political victory by being able to have two government members from OV given up as sacrificial lambs on the great altar of security. If you’re thinking this is pretty childish stuff, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

Discussion 3 — The Hard Six
<@mhawk> alright <@mhawk> did you guys have something new? <DrDan|AFK> What’s up? <Impero[VE]> im not sure whats up haha <DrDan|AFK> Ok then <DrDan|AFK> Ok Seth, the floor is yours <Impero[VE]> errr i would immagine its woodys, he handed out the invites agian <Impero[VE]> lol <@mhawk> big woody told me seth came in and asked for us <Impero[VE]> i think he was responding to your query earlier? <DrDan|AFK> I blame Mhawk. <DrDan|AFK> & Impero <Dani_C> sethb[OV-DepMoFO] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> yes? <~bigwoody> correct <Dani_C> k <Dani_C> just making sure you were here <~bigwoody> mhawk is correct <Impero[VE]> oh <Impero[VE]> well ok then… <@mhawk> ok lets just make this quick then <Impero[VE]> lol <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I didnt ask for anypne but Impero and Dani <@mhawk> sethb <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> yes? <@mhawk> did you knowingly accept spy intel of the NPO forums? <DrDan|AFK> So you didn’t want to talk to Woody or Mhawk? <~bigwoody> this is the same group as last night, just with DrDan moonlighting for Crymson <~bigwoody> I think we’re fine <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> Woody invited me in, I asked for Dani and Impero to come in <DrDan|AFK> Yes, I’m just sitting in for Crymson. <Impero[VE]> in all respect i think these are the same questions as last night <Impero[VE]> if we want a peacefull solution we need to make progress <@mhawk> well if there are no different answers we shall talk tomorrow? <Impero[VE]> seth do u have anything to add, or will your position change tomarow? <Impero[VE]> we really want to wrap this up nicely <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I shouldnt have done it <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> It was a mistake <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> a bad one <DrDan|AFK> Ok, thanks Seth for being honest. <Impero[VE]> yes definitly <@mhawk> ok just so we can clear this up <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> just for the record <@mhawk> you were warned of what it was and promised to not to tell <@mhawk> ok <Impero[VE]> seth has been honest about it from the get go <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I wasnt being intentionally dishonest last night <DrDan|AFK> Ok. <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> this happened months ago and I just found the logs of my convo <@mhawk> perhaps you should post it here <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I think anyone that knows me can testify to the fact that I have a terrible memory <@mhawk> for impero to see <Impero[VE]> yea if you have logs post them <Impero[VE]> it would help everyone get this done without a conflict seth <Impero[VE]> mhawk too <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> I got that screenie for you <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> Cheesy <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> about NPO increasing warchest <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> BUT <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> here’s the deal <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> ? <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> NPO has an anti-spy feature <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> it’s embedded in the image <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> we don’t know where <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> so if that screen shot leaks, we lose a spy <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> ok <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> okay <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> just so you know <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> It will remain in OV <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/w…rchestleak.jpg <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/w…chest2leak.jpg <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> guard that with your life <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I will <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> promise <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> bbl <Impero[VE]> lol <@mhawk> thank you for being honest sethb <@mhawk> this is a nice change <~bigwoody> ^^^^^ <Dani_C> where would you like to go from here? <DrDan|AFK> Ok, so with that in mind, what do you think is an appropriate consequence Seth? <Impero[VE]> well that does contradict what seth said last night <@mhawk> well I would like to confer with NPO for a bit <Impero[VE]> about the SS being first <@mhawk> but I will be very favorable you came clean <@mhawk> this still does have an issue <@mhawk> with duffy <~bigwoody> yeah <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I dont want any harm to come to OV because of my mistake <DrDan|AFK> Yes, Duffy has even worse things, I believe. However, he doesn’t sound like he’ll budge. <@mhawk> I think you have a beter understanding now impero <@mhawk> of what we were looking at <Impero[VE]> no harm will come to OV <~bigwoody> this was a good step <Impero[VE]> well honestly the part i dont get <Impero[VE]> is most of TORN being in peacemode <Impero[VE]> over duffy chit chatting <Impero[VE]> and seth looking at that <@mhawk> well <Impero[VE]> i mean dont we want peace here? <Impero[VE]> this looks as anything but <@mhawk> yes <@mhawk> well <DrDan|AFK> Yeah, this is the first step towards it, honesty and everyone receiving the consequences they should. <@mhawk> you have to roll a hard six sometimes impero <@mhawk> <Impero[VE]> … <DrDan|AFK> Like I said, I believe Duffy has worse things and he won’t admit it. <DrDan|AFK> So <Impero[VE]> alrighty <Impero[VE]> lol <@mhawk> here is how I would like to proceed <DrDan|AFK> We’re getting somewhere, this makes me happy <~bigwoody> we did come to give people a chance to come clean <~bigwoody> and sethb doing so is a great step <Impero[VE]> i agree <@mhawk> I would like you guys to consider how we knew this stuff, and then consider what we accused and questioned duffy of <@mhawk> while you guys do that <@mhawk> we will talk with NPO <@mhawk> regarding the spy stuff <@mhawk> to work out an agreement <@mhawk> the other issue still revolves around duffy <Impero[VE]> that seems reasonable to me <Impero[VE]> i can tell you this thoguh <@mhawk> and claiming he did not discuss treaties <@mhawk> with blackstone <Impero[VE]> ive asked duffy personally as an ally to tell me if theres anything he left out <Impero[VE]> to you <Impero[VE]> he hasent <Impero[VE]> knowning duffy, and im sure dani can conferm <@mhawk> perhaps when he see’s how seth came clean <Impero[VE]> if he hasent said anything now <Impero[VE]> he isent going too <DrDan|AFK> He may with Seth <@mhawk> he will understand the breach in trust someone did <@mhawk> and try to avert the consequences <@mhawk> we can only hope impero <Impero[VE]> yes <DrDan|AFK> Ie, he can show him the logs that we already had including Sethb and Demeanor <@mhawk> I would also again suggest you closely question hellscream <@mhawk> about his activities working with blackstone <Impero[VE]> oh i know <@mhawk> and multies <Impero[VE]> like i said <@mhawk> in NPO <Impero[VE]> i suspended him from VE membership last week on suspicion <Impero[VE]> lol <DrDan|AFK> Ok, good deal. <DrDan|AFK> <Impero[VE]> after someone came to me on IRC <Impero[VE]> but we coudlent prove it <DrDan|AFK> Then we’re definitely heading in the right direction! <@mhawk> ok guys we’ll be in contact <@mhawk> but I’m confident we should be able to avoid something terrible <DrDan|AFK> I really hope Duffy sees the implications of Demeanor and Sethb in a conversation. I can not imagine him not seeing it. <DrDan|AFK> Yeah <DrDan|AFK> I agree <@mhawk> i need to discuss this with NPO <@mhawk> we shall meet later and hopefully duffy will come out as well <@mhawk> honesty is a huge thing for me, rather than “look we caught ya” <@mhawk> we can ignore what was said last night <@mhawk> alright seth <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> like I said I wasnt being intentionally dishonest <@mhawk> thats why I was so specific <@mhawk> I wanted to give you a chance <@mhawk> do a bit of cheating between the next test 0 <Impero[VE]> haha <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> lol <Impero[VE]> well the sooner we get this done without bloodshed the better <Impero[VE]> for everyone <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> ^^^ <~bigwoody> when will duffy be available next? <Impero[VE]> monday <Impero[VE]> possibly tomarow <Impero[VE]> he said most likely monday <@mhawk> lets aim for tomorrow <Impero[VE]> yea <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I’ll try an get him tomorrow <@mhawk> ok guys ill find npo high command now <Impero[VE]> will you let us know on their response before we next meet? <@mhawk> well that would be a meeting in itself <@mhawk> <@mhawk> ill see you guys a bit later

After this discussion, it doesn’t look good for sethb. He’s admitted to the heinous crime of someone sending him a screenshot of publicly known information unrequested. Of course espionage is a terrible crime - there’s no way that alliances like TORN or TPF or NPO would ever do such a thing. One wonders how they came up with the information that sethb had received this screenshot in the first place. This of course just magically popped into their secret forums one day without anyone knowing how it got there. A better explanation is that they are using spies and informants themselves, and are applying a set of standards to everyone else’s activities that they are not willing to apply to their own. They are hypocrites, in other words.

Discussion 4 — Throwing Down the Gauntlet
<Impero[VE]> hello <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Duffy-QUERY> was the treaty what u had for us earlier? <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> um <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> that’s all Vinoct’s deal <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> he’s the head MoFA <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Duffy-QUERY> ah <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> well, as long as it’s kept secret, I don’t see the harm in it <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Duffy-QUERY> u dont want to advertise …im to the point I dont care lol…but its no ones business\ <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> well, I think we can use a secret treaty web to create a blok <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Duffy-QUERY> now that would be something unheard of in CN <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Duffy-QUERY> thing is how long can a secret last in CNv <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> indeed <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> we’re the secret keepers <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> think of it this way: <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> Do you know how many secret treaties we already have, and with who? <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> Only we do. <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> Now. <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> Let’s say we had 50 secret treaties. <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> And wanted to form a blok <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> we would contact each treaty AA individually, and ask them if they’d be willing to form a block with the other 49. <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Duffy-QUERY> but <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> Those that say “yes”, would be a part of that blok. <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> Once the block is established, it goes public. <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Duffy-QUERY> but they wouldnt know about eachother <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> indeed. All they’d know is how many will be in the blok. <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> WE are that blok, btw. <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> ;) <OV|Mr-Duffy> there is no intel there <@DrDan|AFK> What about intel on their forums? <OV|Mr-Duffy> the rest of the logs are of a personal nature discussed kids concerts some lulz about owf stuff <OV|Mr-Duffy> i have no access to their forums <OV|Mr-Duffy> never have <OV|Mr-Duffy> think i asked him once about em he said they were down for one reason or another <OV|Mr-Duffy> never cared to bother him again about it <OV|Mr-Duffy> nor do i care now <~bigwoody> are you sure that is all? <OV|Mr-Duffy> all thats pertains to “intell” and “proposed treaty” <~bigwoody> did you ever, for example, pass in intel from the TPF boards to Blackstone? <~bigwoody> think hard <Impero[VE]> … <OV|Mr-Duffy> i dont have to think <OV|Mr-Duffy> Im not registered on TPF boards <@DrDan|AFK> Ok, so nothing about TPF intel to blackstone then? <OV|Mr-Duffy> when i say this it is no disrespect to TPF….. but i have alot more crap to worry about than what TPF is doing or has on their boards…. <Impero[VE]> so thats a no? <Impero[VE]> lol <@DrDan|AFK> Not just their boards, but intel in general to members of blackstone. <~bigwoody> so you have passed on no intel related to TPF to Blackstone <Great_Lakes_Union|TPF> So you signed a secret treaty, and never talked to them further about anything other that personal stuff? <OV|Mr-Duffy> no <OV|Mr-Duffy> and no <Impero[VE]> im sorry GLU <Impero[VE]> but thats inflamitory <Impero[VE]> we are trying to work twards peace here <OV|Mr-Duffy> there was never a treaty signed <Great_Lakes_Union|TPF> how? <Impero[VE]> thats not accurate at all <@DrDan|AFK> Ok ok, calm calm. <Impero[VE]> and to say something like that is seen as agressive…please lets keep to the facts <Impero[VE]> thanks <OV|Mr-Duffy> No TPF <OV|Mr-Duffy> NO TREATY <OV|Mr-Duffy> bad caps <OV|Mr-Duffy> sorry <OV|Mr-Duffy> nadda <@DrDan|AFK> 1 sec <~bigwoody> are you 100% sure? <~bigwoody> think hard <~bigwoody> I’m giving you a chance to come clean here <OV|Mr-Duffy> OV|Mr-Duffy> i dont have to think <OV|Mr-Duffy> <OV|Mr-Duffy> Im not registered on TPF boards <Impero[VE]> i agree, if theres anything else you need to say so now duff <@DrDan|AFK> Ok <~bigwoody> thats not the question <~bigwoody> did you pass on intel related to TPF to Blackstone at any time <OV|Mr-Duffy> again no <@DrDan|AFK> Ok <~bigwoody> ok <Impero[VE]> alright <Impero[VE]> so if you guys have anything that contradicts that, lets see it and then work something out from there <~bigwoody> http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm12 … edLog1.png <~bigwoody> does that jog your memory? <Impero[VE]> …. <Impero[VE]> are you serious right now? <Impero[VE]> woody, i expect better from you <Impero[VE]> i thoguht you guys were not aiming for war here? <@DrDan|AFK> ? <OV|Mr-Duffy> lol no alright whats up guys <Impero[VE]> that is the big mistory? <@DrDan|AFK> That’s just 1 log contradicting, I believe. one moment for me to catch up please <Impero[VE]> sure take your time <Impero[VE]> yea if theres others please lets see it <@DrDan|AFK> Well sorry I just arrived back I was unaware talks were going again <Impero[VE]> kinda threw me for a loop there with that i thoguht thats what you were going on haha <Impero[VE]> my mistake <@DrDan|AFK> Is there an answer to this contradiction first> <@DrDan|AFK> ? <Impero[VE]> dude that rumor was everywhere :/ <Impero[VE]> i mean…look at an OWF thread on it <@DrDan|AFK> Why’d he tell Blackstone, though? <DarkMistress> ^ <Impero[VE]> thats kinda like someone telling blackstone theres an issue with OV and TORN <Impero[VE]> lol <@DrDan|AFK> Right, why would you do that, though? <DarkMistress> Way to downplay. <~bigwoody> well we havent gotten in to OV’s passing off logs <~bigwoody> between OV and TORN <Impero[VE]> woody, that i would be intrested to see <~bigwoody> no surprise you guys never found the leak <OV|Mr-Duffy> amazingly that is not in any logs i have <Impero[VE]> and not in a sarcastic way <~bigwoody> I told you about it when it happened :v <@DrDan|AFK> Ok, so you deny the validity of those logs? <Impero[VE]> i thoguht you were talking about a personal thing you told ray about <OV|Mr-Duffy> no <OV|Mr-Duffy> of that screenshot i do <@DrDan|AFK> Right, that’s what I meant. <@DrDan|AFK> Ok <Impero[VE]> as for woodys second point <@DrDan|AFK> I think Mhawk is catching up yet. [00:22] <OV|Mr-Duffy> heres the thing <Impero[VE]> i do remeber waht i means, however i wasent aware it was CN related…so im suddenly confused <Impero[VE]> *it <OV|Mr-Duffy> i dont do business with TPF never have i dont know anyone in TPF <Impero[VE]> it looks as though he was just talking about the screenshot sponge posted <Impero[VE]> i mean…you can call it downplaying…but if we want to actully reach a peacefull solution here i dont think that point is worth sticking on <@DrDan|AFK> We can come back to it later since he contests the validity of the screen shot. I believe there are more issues. We’ll wait for Mhawk to catch up on things. <@DrDan|AFK> If not, we can come back to the screenshot again. <Impero[VE]> sounds good <Impero[VE]> also, you mind giving Cornelius an invite? <OV|Mr-Duffy> ok also if i was to “pass intel” i would change my nick… <~bigwoody> is that what you normally do when you pass intel? <DrDan> Darn internet acting up <Impero[VE]> Dan, could you give Cornelius an invite? <DarkMistress> You didn’t change your nick when talking to Blackstone. <Impero[VE]> woody i think the point he was trying to make is he isent stupid enough to pass intel <OV|Mr-Duffy> cuz there was nothing of any meaning passed to BC <DrDan> Yeah, sure can <DrDan> Everyone OK with Cornelius being here?. <DarkMistress> Are we still doing 1 rep from each alliance? <Impero[VE]> well…if we want to actully get a resolution out of this we should move on <Impero[VE]> we can do that if you like <Impero[VE]> i was just wondering <~bigwoody> I think we are sticking to 1 rep <~bigwoody> otherwise this room will get huge fast <DarkMistress> Either you or Corn is fine, Impero. It’s up to you. <Impero[VE]> sure <DrDan> Sounds good. <Impero[VE]> lets move on <Impero[VE]> honestly, lots of people are concerned and want to see this end nicely for all…i dont think sticking on public information points is worthwhile <Impero[VE]> for all parties involved <DrDan> 1 sec, is mhawk here still? <~bigwoody> pinging him <~bigwoody> he is known for failnets <Impero[VE]> haha <DrDan> It seems that way :S sorry guys just comparing notes of what you guys said <Impero[VE]> its cool as you’ve ascertained at this point it is quite a bit to compare <Impero[VE]> ive seen little to be concerned with honestly, nothing we cant work out if we all keep level heads and actully dont want a needless war <Impero[VE]> however if theres more it needs to be adressed, will help the stress level of all lol <DarkMistress> So the NPO screenshots are little to be concerned with? <Impero[VE]> the warchest requirements? <DarkMistress> Because clearly, they concern us. <Impero[VE]> would you concider them a relevant security threat? <DarkMistress> We consider access to our forum’s private information to be a security threat. <Impero[VE]> something general members often confer about in public IRC channels? <DarkMistress> Yes. Members. <Impero[VE]> i agree <DarkMistress> Neither Blackstone nor seth are members. <Impero[VE]> access to your forums is <Impero[VE]> defintily relvent <DrDan> We need to stay on track. <Impero[VE]> fortunatly logs prove seth was givin the screen shots <DarkMistress> And sharing information for OUR members is not for OV nor Blackstone. <Impero[VE]> he did not take them <DrDan> We’re not discussing Sethb’s punishment atm. <Impero[VE]> so OV is good in that respect <Impero[VE]> yep your correct dan <Impero[VE]> we will get back to that <DarkMistress> lol. fine. <DrDan> Sorry DM. <DarkMistress> Yeah, OV is great. <DarkMistress> I see how this meeting’s going. <Impero[VE]> :/ just cool heads please <DrDan> We’re just awaiting Mhawk’s other allegations against Duffy and then we can continue. That or we need to talk about that screenshot. Let us know when you’re ready Mhawk. alright duffy have you ever been aware of general members signed up on blackstone’s forums? several members <Impero[VE]> general members of OV you mean? (no idea what your talking about, just clarifying lol) a couple of general members <Impero[VE]> of OV <Impero[VE]> ? <OV|Mr-Duffy> rumor of could find nothing tho have you ever stated you’d welcome blackstone members to your house? <Impero[VE]> what question is it? <~bigwoody> not your RL house, mind you <Impero[VE]> im so confused by that line of questioning <DrDan> Just wait for Duffy to answer Impero <Impero[VE]> think you could maybe rephrase? have you ever stated to blackstone that you’d welcome their members to your house? as in OV have you ever stated you’d welcome blackstone members to your alliance how long can secrets in cn last after all? <Impero[VE]> once agian, you confused me at the end :/ <OV|Mr-Duffy> welcome BC members to OV…. with us knowing they are BC?\ <OV|Mr-Duffy> hell no how sure are you of that answer duffy you should think real closely <OV|Mr-Duffy> i may have …. but dont think i did like i said be clear <Impero[VE]> not exactly a classy thing to say, but i dont think saying it is the same as doing it so <Impero[VE]> dude if he cant remeber every word he said dont torture the kid if someone was to state they would welcome vox members into their alliance <OV|Mr-Duffy> kid? <DarkMistress> lol <OV|Mr-Duffy> man im older than most of you <DarkMistress> Thought Duffy had kids. and then vox members did join that alliance <Impero[VE]> lol <OV|Mr-Duffy> if not all of you and then they were built up <Impero[VE]> my bad, torture the man* <Impero[VE]> lol accepted immediately <Impero[VE]> wait, Vox members now? stating recruited by seth and duffy that wouldn’t be odd? sorry I broke my anology part way <Impero[VE]> this is all very hard to keep stright and went to what happened <OV|Mr-Duffy> vox? <Impero[VE]> im assumeing you have proof that duffy knowingly accepted them correct? <OV|Mr-Duffy> we discussed that last night you just said “not a exactly a classy thing” <DrDan> Ok <Impero[VE]> yes, it may not be something you or i would say mhawk <Impero[VE]> buts its not proof of him doing it <Impero[VE]> and you know that <DrDan> So you did or did not say that you “would welcome members of Blackstone into your house”? well here is the deal did you state you’d welcome blackstone members to your house duffy <OV|Mr-Duffy> i accept and by pass OVU if they have over 2k ns <~bigwoody> :hivemind: <Impero[VE]> Dan he said he could have…we cant expect him to remember every word he said <~bigwoody> Impero[VE], he asked duffy <OV|Mr-Duffy> no thats fine <Impero[VE]> well hey, this is alot for duff <OV|Mr-Duffy> Imp can repeat what i say <Impero[VE]> im more used to this stuff <OV|Mr-Duffy> i aint as fast as he is <~bigwoody> we can wait <DrDan> Ok, so operating under the assumption that you said that blackstone members could use your alliance as a home, what do you think Duffy? <OV|Mr-Duffy> nope <OV|Mr-Duffy> never said it <Impero[VE]> your positive? <OV|Mr-Duffy> yup <Impero[VE]> well alright, anything to contradict that? <DrDan> They’ve shown 1 contradiction already, are you certain? <DrDan> Perhaps not the exact wording above, but similar <OV|Mr-Duffy> i dont know im not sure <Impero[VE]> i think hes reading his logs <DrDan> No problem <DrDan> I’d rather we’re sure before we continue. <Impero[VE]> trying to remeber that far back is almost impossible <Impero[VE]> yea <Impero[VE]> but understand that say i came to mhawk and asked him about a phrase he said in december <DrDan> I hear ya <Impero[VE]> would you expect him to remember it definitvely? <DrDan> No rush, just my sleep at stake :D <~bigwoody> mmmmm steak <~bigwoody> try a ribeye <Impero[VE]> lol <DrDan> You know I will <~bigwoody> yeap <Impero[VE]> but yea i got a girl waiting so we should move on lol <~bigwoody> if you need to switch in another VE rep <~bigwoody> go for it <DarkMistress> Guys, I have to tag out. xxxxxxxxxxxxx. <DarkMistress> Moo’s coming in. <DrDan> Night DM <DrDan> Sleep well <DarkMistress> night Dan <~bigwoody> night DM <DarkMistress> night <Impero[VE]> hello <EmperorRevenge> hey just waiting on duffy to review his logs? <Impero[VE]> i thoguht we were waiting on you D: <Impero[VE]> haha <Impero[VE]> so he said that he cant remember if he said something a while ago waiting on duffy to come clean so we can reach a solution here <Impero[VE]> ? its a matter of memory on phrases not coming clean <Impero[VE]> i agree <Impero[VE]> we should move on so we can reach something amicable and peacefull for all I believe dan is the mediator <EmperorRevenge> that was my impression as well <DrDan> Well, if he offered OV as a “home” or said something of the sort, it could be seen poorly and give more validation to the previously posted screen shot. <DrDan> So it’s an important point. <OV|Mr-Duffy> i cant find any logs of anything like that <DrDan> mhawk, is there anything else you can say to help refresh Duffy’s memory? <Impero[VE]> perhaps the time that he said it? <OV|Mr-Duffy> i honestly dont know, so its possible i said it alright thats your final answer to that/ <Duffy-QUERY> was the treaty what u had for us earlier? <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> um <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> that’s all Vinoct’s deal <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> he’s the head MoFA <OV|Mr-Duffy> <Duffy-QUERY> ah *** Dark_Angelus (WebGuest13@coldfront-63EEA4D1.xx.xx.xxx.xxx) has joined #nso *** Vinoct_Materi (SilentSpec@coldfront-63EEA4D1.xx.xx.xxx.xxx) has joined #iro <Impero[VE]> yea that was before you got in here <Impero[VE]> GLU was here thoguh http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6505/69936367.png so i ask one more time duffy you better be crystal clear and honest as a saint did you state to demeanor you would welcome blackstone members to your house <OV|Mr-Duffy> as u stated no how would did you state it then <OV|Mr-Duffy> well they sent a diplo over <OV|Mr-Duffy> we all know that <OV|Mr-Duffy> did i mask him? <OV|Mr-Duffy> no <OV|Mr-Duffy> i dont mess with FA masks <~bigwoody> did you look at the screenshot? <Impero[VE]> its an application approved by someone named sugarbutt what i’m saying <Impero[VE]> how this makes duffy party to knowingly accepting blackstone members i cannot see <Impero[VE]> and im sure there will be plenty who would agree <Impero[VE]> is this your case agiesnt OV? <EmperorRevenge> well, at this point, it is not up to them is it? <Impero[VE]> i want to see peace here, but this seems like an agressive stretch <EmperorRevenge> and not really up to you either <EmperorRevenge> DrDan is the mediator <Impero[VE]> ive been authorized by rayvon to speak for OV <Impero[VE]> as he cant be here <EmperorRevenge> and he has been doing a fine job so why don’t you just let him mediate <EmperorRevenge> ? <EmperorRevenge> let OV speak for OV <EmperorRevenge> is this your final stance Duffy? <Impero[VE]> VE is their closest ally and brother, so im here to help in whatever way i can to reach a peacefull solution out of this <Impero[VE]> duffy isent exactly FA <EmperorRevenge> I am asking Duffy a question about his part <EmperorRevenge> this does not concern you IMpero <EmperorRevenge> Duffy can answer for Duffy <DrDan> Guys, either Duffy denies it or he doesn’t. <DrDan> Duffy has denied it. <DrDan> There’s not much more really to say. <EmperorRevenge> we don’t believe you <EmperorRevenge> and t hese are the terms we are asking: <EmperorRevenge> both sethb and duffy are to be expelled and will be ZId for one term <EmperorRevenge> they cannot sell their infrastructure to accomplish this ZI <EmperorRevenge> and they will publish public apologies stating their actions <EmperorRevenge> that caused this situation to arise <EmperorRevenge> that’s it <Impero[VE]> well, neither i nor duffy can make that decision to accept or reject <Impero[VE]> but is this you last attempt at a peacefull solution to this? <EmperorRevenge> we will await an answer from OV then <EmperorRevenge> this is a relatively mild solution as only the guilty are punished <EmperorRevenge> and they are freed after a single ZI <EmperorRevenge> and theycan return to OV <EmperorRevenge> or anywhere after it is accomplished <Impero[VE]> to be certain…you want a gov member and a deputy ZIed for an application…and OWF rumor…and a warchest SS. <Impero[VE]> i think there are more reasonable ways to reach peace here <EmperorRevenge> Impero, don’t even minimize what has happened here <Impero[VE]> but if thats what you have decided <Impero[VE]> then we will review it with friends and allies. <EmperorRevenge> we will talk to OV <Impero[VE]> and you have, 2 night in a row <EmperorRevenge> when OV has decided OV can let us know <Impero[VE]> 4 times today <EmperorRevenge> yes, which shows our willingness for a peaceful s olution <EmperorRevenge> OV can let us know what they decide <Impero[VE]> it does, i guess our definition of peacefull differs <Impero[VE]> but to each his own <Impero[VE]> if there is nothing else i beleive we are done here? <OV|Mr-Duffy> OV will not be condeming any members just because you want them to <DrDan> Alright. <DrDan> The terms are presented <EmperorRevenge> so you would rather our terms include the entire alliance suffer <Impero[VE]> ok <EmperorRevenge> for the actions of two? <Impero[VE]> thanks for you time guys <EmperorRevenge> interesting <DrDan> Good luck everyone. <EmperorRevenge> I believe DrDan is the mediator <DrDan> I think the meeting is over unless anyone has anything to add to the terms or anymore allegations. <EmperorRevenge> thank you DrDan
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Okay, so MrDuffy denies offering safe haven to a member of Blackstone, and denies giving intelligence on TPF to Blackstone. What is the response from the other side? “We don’t believe you, either eject the two people from the alliance for punishment by us or we attack.” The tactic NPO and its useful idiots are using here is the one they always use. They gang up on people unused to fast paced IRC confrontations and hammer them with questions and accusations until they either crack up and say something unfortunate or they clam up and are thought to be accepting the charges through the principle of ’silence is acceptance’.

So, there you go folks. That’s where it stands as of right now. That’s how wars start. Keep that in mind the next time you are dragged into a private room with representatives from NPO or their thralls. They’ll lay out some accusations for you and if you don’t agree to what they say they’ll take your alliance out. This is how they maintain their hegemony over you. They’ll intimidate you one by one and get you to give up some of your own members for the slaughter, and make a public spectacle of it. This is intended to keep the other alliances in line.

My suggestion to all of you is to put a stop to this nonsense - these witch hunts - once and for all.