Talk:TPF War

Please do not change the generic war name unless there is a wide consensus to do so from people on both sides of the war.  Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation

Keep The Name
As what was said above, lets keep the name, TPF War for now. It's unbiased and right for the moment. Not one alliance has helped TPF yet, so it isn't a major war until it truly escalates. Lets wait and see, and than decide on a name. --Ryan Greenberg (talk &bull; contribs) 02:30, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * I particularly liked this proposal, based off of this logic, but I agree that TPF War should be maintained for now.  Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation

Accusations/facts
Can we please establish that TPF acknowledged its plans (against Athens only, not against Ragnarok) but the whole war isn't about whether they spied, it is about whether it was justified to spy, and whether the lack of diplomacy was warranted. I don't want to see any "Athens claimed", or "TPF was accused of" because it should be "Athens found out" and "TPF did" Leprecon (talk &bull; contribs)

Minimum size for participants
The one-man alliance "Not voting for VoxTards" declared war on Athens today in defense of TPF. Should we include this alliance on the TPF side, or do we have an (un)official minimum for alliance size before it gets included? Gopherbashi (talk &bull; contribs) 04:54, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm going to say wait and see if they get more members or not. A similar situation occurred regarding the VE-GDI War over the number of one man declarations, in the end we decided to remove them all. If they grow further than maybe we should come back and revisit the issue, however I think of it more like this: if you add 1 one-man alliance, then when 50 join in you add them all - or you just do none. My thoughts. -- Imperial Emperor - Talk


 * I agree with Imperial Emperor on this. If there get to be numerous one-man alliances declaring, who are not united under a single AA, then perhaps we could individually list them - sans flags - in a collapsed list titled "Individual Participants".   Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation

Participants
For anyone looking for a quick and easy listing of those who DoW'd (and DoS'd) last night: War stats Gopherbashi (talk &bull; contribs) 06:37, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

-- I am editing people in right now. Please do not overwrite my edits. --Tushardhoot (talk &bull; contribs) 06:49, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

-- Thread with all DoWs and DoSs listed: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=77482 Gopherbashi (talk &bull; contribs) 06:50, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

-- NVM. It seems I am not allowed to edit the article. Anyone else with this problem? --Tushardhoot (talk &bull; contribs) 06:51, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I semiprotected the article to prevent unregistered users from spamming it with all the DoWs. I'll deprotect it to allow you to edit.   Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation

-- Thanks. Added the links, working on flags next. After that, links to wiki pages. Gopher, can you get the stats after update? --Tushardhoot (talk &bull; contribs) 07:40, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I update my stats every day around 9-10 PM ET from the All Alliances Display. It's not real-time (up to 12 hours in the past), but it's easier than going through 200 real-time stats. Gopherbashi (talk &bull; contribs) 16:54, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

-- Alright. Added stat images as well. I'm done for now, you can lock it again if you want. BTW, I couldn't edit the article earlier (when it was semiprotected) even though I was registered. Weird? Tushardhoot (talk &bull; contribs) 08:24, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * You need an account for at least 4 days and have at least 10 edits before it will allow you to edit.  Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation

Since we've got some down time right now, should we be listing the participants in any type of logical order? As it stands right now, they just seem to be listed in some sort of jumbled mess. Anyone have issues if I rearrange them (at least for the time being) by order of entry into the war? Gopherbashi (talk &bull; contribs) 22:05, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Go ahead, but keep CDT at the top how EphiriamGey put it, he's right about keepinc blocs together.  Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation
 * Done Gopherbashi (talk &bull; contribs) 22:22, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

I added in bloc images and reorganized alliances accordingly on both sides - I added CnG and SF on the Athens side, as I'm anticipating we'll see some more declarations on that side tonight. Perhaps we could organize each side by size? E.g., largest bloc on top, then second largest bloc, and then for individual alliances, largest alliance, then second largest, etc. There's also the matter of how to represent membership in two blocs - I'm quite sure this will come up once more members of Poseidon enter (Invicta/UPN are in CDT and Poseidon, Valhalla is in Duckroll and Poseidon). --EphriamGrey (talk &bull; contribs) 22:50, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Additional information needed.
Do we need to add the date at which the accused spying occurred(since the accused spying took place many months ago) and I think we need to add what these alliances did to attempt to resolved it peacefully, as well as, "the Rishnokof incident" and the "Athen massive tech raid incident" since the seem to be linked.

I believe we could draw parallels to WWII and WWI? as there were many poweder kegs and the article will look more interesting and cover the full aspect of this incident.


 * I don't really see how the Athens tech raiding is related, could you give some detail there?--Vladisvok Destino (talk &bull; contribs) 14:42, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

UPN
The government of UPN confirmed that the attacks upon TPF were not authorised, Haflinger had originally edited the page to reflect this (labelling them "UPN Rogues") however because of the number of edits it seems better to post here too. --Vladisvok Destino (talk &bull; contribs) 18:15, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * The fact they were not authorized does not mean they did not occur. If and when the UPN issues a declaration of war or declaration of support for the Coincidence Coalition, then they may be moved or removed as necessary.  There is already a footnote explaining the extent of their involvement, and their removal at this point is not warranted.   Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation

I'm curious, at what point can attacks upon an alliance be considered part of the war? There is a Sparta nation that has attacked TPF with the reason "alliance war". I'm not trying to be a pain (I realise this could come off as me trying to be pedantic) I am just interested so that if I edit wars in future I can do so accurately. --Vladisvok Destino (talk &bull; contribs) 18:25, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I'm curious as to that, as I'd not seen it. In both AI's and UPN's cases, there were multiple nations that attacked, as proved by screenshots that seem to have been removed in the editing process (I'll look for those).  For the time being, I've re-added UPN and AI, but I've added to the footnote to clarify UPN's stance on the war.  If anyone knows if AI's similarly rsponded regarding the two or three wars its members declared, add them into the new statement, too.   Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation

Ok, thanks for that :) I'll make a note of this for next time. --Vladisvok Destino (talk &bull; contribs) 18:35, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

I've spoken to UPN government, and confirmed that the wars made by UPN on TPF were, in fact, rogue attacks. UPN is allied to CDT, and many of the alliances on the CoC side of the war, and I see absolutely no point in listing them as a combatant on the CnG/SF side of things. However, for now, I'll leave it be.
 * We know who they're allied to, and the footnote clearly states that they did not sanction the wars. If and when they take an official stand regarding the war, then they can and will be (re)moved from the list.   Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation
 * I know the member of AI who attacked (he used to be in my alliance, Andromeda), and I'm quite sure he's fully aware of his actions :P. UPN government would appreciate it if this matter could be reconsidered.
 * Well, I do expect to see a DoS/DoW from them eventually, at which point, I assure you, they will be moved or removed. Same goes for AI.   Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation

Accusations of RoK Spying
Should we mention the the public notice that IRON, NATO, and NSO put out a day or two before their involvement in the conflict that outlined evidence that RoK had a massive spying operation of their own, and asked for an explanation? - President Laughlin (talk &bull; contribs) 18:56, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see how that's really relative to this war, could you explain more?  Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation
 * The CB of the war is TPF, during the Karma War, attempted to destabilize the alliances that are curently attacking them. However, one of the alliances attacking TPF have apparently themselves been engaging in a vigorous espionage campaign. I should also note that the alliances targeted by RoK's alleged spying have not yet announced a DoW on RoK as of yet, just it's allies in this conflict. President Laughlin (talk &bull; contribs) 20:38, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I understand that, what I don't see is how it's entirely related. Until such a declaration of war is made, that really is irrelevant to the war at hand.  However, I would agree that a section needs to be added to better explain the casus belli.   Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation

Commanders of CoC
I edited the commanders on the CoC side, leaving only Liquid Mercury listed. Considering that this entire war was held up on account of him, I feel he's the only guy who really deserves credit for organizing the CoC forces.
 * Looks good.  Michael von Preußen   voicemail  •  nation

C&G
Is their any need to put C&G done when only one alliance from them is involved? Kingcjc 22:49, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Use of "Supercomplaints"
I had inserted "Supercomplaints" as the name of the SF/C&G-led coalition, but it has since been removed. I was under the impression that this term was widely used for that side of the war. Is this not the case, and, if it is, does anyone have any issues with me reinstating it as the header for force1? Michael von Preußen  voicemail  •  nation